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   SoapDog (soapdog@toot.cafe)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:39:39 JST SoapDog

   Lots of exciting #decentralization protocols and technology out there. Some are not ready for usage, others are not following the paradigm I prefer, I love that we're spoiled for choice.

   IMO I still love #SecureScuttlebutt, for me it is still the best offline-first local-first gossip protocol out there. Yes, it has dangerous corners and design issues, but it works and I can build apps with it for my friends.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:39:35 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     GNU Jami
     
     CC: @soapdog@toot.cafe @strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
     
   • Embed this notice
     cy (cy@fedicy.us.to)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:39:36 JST cy

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     Can't say I've looked into it before. I got tired of nodejs projects back when they switched to the new module format. Good to know, at least!
     
     In my opinion, a good project would write programs, not "ship" "apps." Dunno what one would be good though.
     
     CC: @soapdog@toot.cafe
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:39:37 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • cy

     @cy
     > What was that non-blockchain network... Briar I think?

     Briar is a neat experiment, but they've never shipped apps for anything but Android. The problem with depending on one proprietary OS ought to be obvious, Goggle's recent decision to start farming Android app devs is a good example;

     https://keepandroidopen.org/

     So until it's cross-platform, Briar is a fun toy, but not suitable for production use.

     @soapdog

   • Embed this notice
     cy (cy@fedicy.us.to)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:39:38 JST cy

     in reply to
     I find it has pretty intractable scaling problems. So like... it works... at first. But gets bigger and slower pretty much exponentially. What was that non-blockchain network... Briar I think?
     
     https://briarproject.org/
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:48:06 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     'been pretty happy with snac. it's very lightweight both on server and browser-side client. I'd run the server at home, like back in the twister days, if I had a fixed and stable IP address.
     
     CC: @strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz @cy@fedicy.us.to
     
   • Embed this notice
     SoapDog (soapdog@toot.cafe)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:48:07 JST SoapDog

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy

     @strypey @cy the fediverse is indeed cool, but it is not the p2p I aim for. It is very costly to run an instance in terms of bandwidth and also it is server to server and that is just federation, which is cool in its own way but not comparable. It has the best of both worlds and also the worst.

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:48:08 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • cy

     @cy
     > I just use the Fediverse, nothing else seems worth bothering with

     Same. Other than email and SMS, and occasional use of Matrix and even less often XMPP.

     @soapdog

   • Embed this notice
     cy (cy@fedicy.us.to)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:48:09 JST cy

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     I just use the Fediverse, nothing else seems worth bothering with. I kind of gave up a while ago. I don't have an existing group, or anyone at all really. Met some nice people on the Fediverse though. (None of them are interested in whatever network I might propose.)
     
     CC: @soapdog@toot.cafe
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:48:11 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • cy

     @cy
     > Dunno what one would be good though

     Depends on your use case/ threat model. Ask yourself questions like; who do I want to communicate with and why? Are you looking for software for an existing group/ network of people who can make and action decisions about where to communicate? Are you wanting to adopt an app to make new contacts among its current network? How sensitive are the communications? Etc, etc.

     @soapdog

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:56:10 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     the jami network has a single blockchain for name registration, and you don't even have to run it on your computer
     
     in ssb, every user runs their own blockchain. yes, it is a blockchain.
     
     with Jami, every conversation gets a git repo. how cool is that?
     
     (a git branch is arguably a blockchain too 😉
     
     not a distributed-consensus blockchain, though
     
     CC: @cy@fedicy.us.to @strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
     
   • Embed this notice
     SoapDog (soapdog@toot.cafe)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 01:56:11 JST SoapDog

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @cy @strypey not sure I like Jami cause I'm not that fond of using cryptocurrency or blockchains

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 08:55:59 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     my understanding is that a blockchain is defined by the property that each block "contains" its predecessors by carrying a cryptographic hash of its immediate predecessor. IIUC this encompasses SSB logs, and perhaps git commits as well (though they don't necessarily form a chain in the presence of merge commits). I suppose you associate blockchains strictly with cryptocurrencies or something that excludes various other kinds of blockchains, or perhaps with those that involve proof of waste... I can't see a reason to constrain a term that sensibly and naturally refers to a more general concept, that makes sense on its own, to have it refer to a limited subset thereof.
     
     CC: @cy@fedicy.us.to @strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
     
   • Embed this notice
     SoapDog (soapdog@toot.cafe)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 08:56:00 JST SoapDog

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @cy @strypey

     Alexandre,

     An append-only log does not a blockchain makes.

     SSB uses an append-only log that is cryptographically signed.

     There is no proof of stake, no proof of work, no artificial scarcity, there are no tokens. It is not a blockchain.

     Please, don't spread fud.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 09:31:32 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     but why should website be defined as a site on the web with a global consensus mechanism (or any other narrowing qualifier), instead of just site on the web? 🙂
     
     likewise, methinks, blockchain means chain of blocks, not chain of blocks with narrowing qualifiers
     
     come to think of it, even the cryptographic properties I mentioned are an unnecessary narrowing qualifier. even a linked list seems to qualify, given the "natural" meaning of blockchain.
     
     CC: @cy@fedicy.us.to @soapdog@toot.cafe
     
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 09:31:34 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • cy
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo
     > a blockchain is defined by the property that each block "contains" its predecessors

     That's how @cy is defining the term too. I'm wondering what this is based on, because I agree with @soapdog here, my understanding has always been that a blockchain is a special case of an append-only log, that includes a global consensus mechanism. So calling any use of an append-only log a "blockchain" is like calling any use of the net a "website", even if it doesn't use HTTP.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 09:37:25 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     but then, we already have a term for linked lists, and we also have a term for append-only logs, so perhaps under that light it might makes sense to define blockchain more narrowly. I'd rather refer to the one with cryptographic hashes and distributed consensus as crypto block chain 🙂
     
     CC: @cy@fedicy.us.to @soapdog@toot.cafe
     
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 09:41:50 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     there has been significant work recently to improve reliability. I suspect most of the problems have had to do with (denial of) background operation on smartphones, and reliance on their proprietary notification systems, but I don't know enough about their (phones') operating systems to have a clue about what they're up against. it has worked quite reliably to phoneless me 🙂 when contacting other non-phone peers, but even reaching phone users seems to have improved
     
     CC: @cy@fedicy.us.to @soapdog@toot.cafe
     
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 09:41:51 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • cy
     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo
     > GNU Jami

     ... is better than Briar in that it has apps for a range of OS. Problem is Jami doesn't work reliably. Last time I tried it the group voice chat was very good, but text message delivery was laggy and unreliable. Even when both people in the chat were online at the same time (and communicating in a backchannel about the test).

     Maybe that's improved since they shipped group chats? Hmm. Did they actually ship those yet?

     @cy @soapdog

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 13:16:35 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     nod, but how do you define blocks? 🙂
     
     CC: @strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz @soapdog@toot.cafe
     
   • Embed this notice
     cy (cy@fedicy.us.to)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 13:16:36 JST cy

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     Technically linked lists can be between different data structures, other than "blocks." Blockchains are chains of blocks, not chains of skiplists or whatever you're doing with linked lists. And I'm not basing it off of anything. Regardless of what you think is proper for calling something a blockchain, and whether I should be allowed to refer to non-consensussy blockchains as blockchains, there are intractable problems with blockchains as I define them, even if they lack that Byzantine consensus nonsense.
     
     CC: @strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz @soapdog@toot.cafe
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 14:16:31 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • cy
     filesystems often have data structures to represent on-disk blocks. ISTR on Commodore 64's very primitive filesystem, data disk blocks started with a pointer to the next block used by the file. that made them a linked list of blocks. dare I say that files were stored in a blockchain back then? 🙂
     
     CC: @strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz @soapdog@toot.cafe
     
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     cy (cy@fedicy.us.to)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Mar-2026 14:16:32 JST cy

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Alexandre Oliva
     They're like... lego... bricks, see?
     
     But no the only definition I've heard for "block" is an unstructured sequence of data, generally of a fixed maximum size. It's a metaphor for how you divide a city up into blocks, so to deal with big data, you divide that up into blocks too.
     
     I suppose Minecraft might define a block as an actual virtual cube voxel. Minetest calls them nodes, though.
     
     CC: @strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz @soapdog@toot.cafe