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   Artemis (artemis@dice.camp)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Feb-2026 08:15:41 JST Artemis

   So is one of the reasons that some parents resent it when their adult children don't end up having children of their own that their adult children are experiencing freedom that they didn't have at that same age because they were busy raising kids?

   Do people feel invalidated if their own kids don't go through the labor & stress of raising kids?

   • Rich Felker repeated this.
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     Artemis (artemis@dice.camp)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Feb-2026 08:15:47 JST Artemis

     in reply to

     But also...that resentment should tell us that we need to make it easier to raise kids!

     Caring for kids is a lot of work, & I would really rather it not be another huge pile of tasks for a couple people who are already exhausted all the time from all the other demands placed on them.

     We as a society could do better...if only we could get away from the perspective that being human is primarily about the value you produce through labor.

     Rich Felker repeated this.
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     Artemis (artemis@dice.camp)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Feb-2026 08:15:48 JST Artemis

     in reply to

     There is SO MUCH resentment about raising kids, & it's weird how often that results in the demand that OTHER people have kids to validate one person's life & choices.

     I understand that a lot of times even people who "chose" to have kids weren't fully free to make their own choices because of social pressures pushing & pushing them, but it drives me nuts when that resentment goes towards the child who is the only one involved in that scenario who had absolutely no input at all.

     Rich Felker repeated this.
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     Artemis (artemis@dice.camp)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Feb-2026 08:15:56 JST Artemis

     in reply to

     An uncomfortably high number of people are on this planet for no reason other than that their parents felt pressure to have children.

     That's it.

     A lot of parents didn't want to have or raise children, but they did anyway, & now they are confused why these children they had entirely out of obligation & have always thought (& spoken) of as a burden don't call home anymore.

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Feb-2026 08:20:20 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • El Duvelle

     @elduvelle @artemis That's so ridiculous and backwards. Genes are not you, and even if the genes evolved to favor behaviors that would transmit them, you have no reason to care about that. Someone having my genes still living once I'm gone isn't going to grant me any immortality. The things we do actually have sound motive to want to transmit are memetic. These are parts of us, and can be things that benefit future generations of beings and bring us connection to them.

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     El Duvelle (elduvelle@neuromatch.social)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Feb-2026 08:20:21 JST El Duvelle

     in reply to

     @artemis I guess one of the reasons for having biological children (conscious or not) is that you get to transmit your genes and in a way you become a little bit immortal... (I said, consciously or not!)
     So if you do all that, go through all the trouble and costs related to having children, and then those children "stop the chain" by not having children of their own.. You're not really immortal anymore.. and maybe you will start to resent them for it.

     (I'm not saying it's justified or not)

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 24-Feb-2026 08:22:25 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • El Duvelle

     @elduvelle @artemis My observation has been that the people who obsess over genes believe that they have ownership of the humans who carry on those genes and get to force those humans to live lives that they believe serve a continuation of their clan (or often klan) identity after they're gone.