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1. Embed this notice
   SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:39:27 JST SuperDicq

   The Ladybird Browser for reason uses fucking Discord and Github for its development.
   
   How much you wanna bet Discord Web doesn't even work properly in Ladybird?

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:39:49 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Iska

     @iska@catposter.club Nope

   • Embed this notice
     Iska (iska@catposter.club)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:39:52 JST Iska

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo discordIt has an irc, right? Matrix, xmpp bridge? Surely?

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:45:18 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     Ladybird is absolutely doomed to fail:

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:56:01 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€

     @foxhkron@cybre.club Relies on a proprietary toolchain centered around Xcode and is very Apple biased in every aspect.
     
     I'd even rather use Rust.

   • Embed this notice
     Toromino #Team9€ (foxhkron@cybre.club)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:56:02 JST Toromino #Team9€

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo What’s so bad about Swift?

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:58:43 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net >"usable but a little glitchy" if you don't need audio/video calls.
     
     That's exactly what I mean. It doesn't work properly.
     
     The thing that they use to develop the software does not work in the actual software.

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:58:44 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq well they got discord working at a basic level a couple of years ago so honestly i wouldnt be the most surprised if it was usable
   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 19:58:44 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija
     @SuperDicq yeah it is
     
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:23:33 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron iirc its become independent?
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:24:48 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @foxhkron@cybre.club I'd personally call it a puppet state.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:27:57 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @foxhkron@cybre.club
     
     Copyright © 2025 Apple Inc. All rights reserved.
     
     Swift and the Swift logo are trademarks of Apple Inc.

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:27:58 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron bruh
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:31:46 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron well, its a process. I'm gonna learn swift since I will most likely move to macOS and currently you can make gtk apps with it
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:31:46 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @foxhkron@cybre.club If you want to make GTK applications why not try Vala?

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:33:50 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @foxhkron@cybre.club I'm not a big fan of Rust but I'd still choose it over Swift.

   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:33:51 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron myself (idc about other things)
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:33:52 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron because i can either use rust or swift, and swift would help in the future
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:33:52 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Johnny Peligro

     @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @foxhkron@cybre.club Who is restricting you to these two languages?

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:48:38 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€

     @foxhkron@cybre.club The catch is exactly the thing I am complaining about. No other worthwhile programming language has a catch like this.

   • Embed this notice
     Toromino #Team9€ (foxhkron@cybre.club)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:48:39 JST Toromino #Team9€

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo you can use Swift without Xcode or Apple’s proprietary toolchain. The Swift compiler is open source, runs on Linux and macOS, and comes with the Swift Package Manager for builds and dependencies. You can develop CLI tools, libraries, or server apps with just swiftc and your editor of choice.
     
     the catch: if you’re building iOS or macOS apps, you’ll need Xcode, since only it provides the SDKs, simulators, and signing tools.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:52:33 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net I just think it's incredible ironic that they decided to go with the one thing that sucks to run any browser, especially a custom one.
     
     Here's a list of communication solutions for a free software project:
     
     Acceptable:
     Email
     IRC
     XMPP
     Matrix
     
     I don't like it but I can deal with it:
     RocketChat
     MatterMost
     Signal
     Telegram
     
     I hope you die a horrible death:
     Slack
     Discord
     MS Teams
     Any other proprietary platform

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:52:34 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija
     @SuperDicq like theres all these better alternative right? all without vc. and probably not inside ladybird, i also disagree with discord being used for this but i dont see that from the "doesnt run perfectly inside the software" pov
   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 20:52:35 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq i dont know much about these zoomer devs but are voice calls ever involved in the development here?
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:04:30 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net What the fuck are you smoking ranking Slack higher than XMPP?

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:04:31 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq id rank this for software projects in general including foss
     
     Acceptable:
     Email
     IRC
     
     I don't like it but I can deal with it i have to:
     RocketChat
     MatterMost
     Slack
     
     I hope you die a horrible death:
     XMPP
     Discord
     Matrix
     Signal
     Telegram
     MS Teams
     Any other proprietary platform
   • Embed this notice
     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@tsundere.love)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:05:06 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron i do as i desire, I don't hate Apple nor am a free sowtware extreemist
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:08:43 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net Proprietary software should not be used ever. It only serves it's owners and not the user.

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:08:44 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq acceptable is what it should be, dont like is shit that i dont like but is common enough with software projects and designed for this purpose. all the other ones are just batshit choice for all the same reasons you shouldnt manage your project on discord. also ms teams because fuck teams
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:19:46 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net Saying you're pragmatic about proprietary software is like saying you're being pragmatic about living in jail, which usually comes down to giant copes like: "At least I don't have to choose my own clothes anymore!".
     
     Free software is the only pragmatic thing.

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:19:47 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq im not a foss cultist i'm pragmatic about it. sure i'll prefer open source shit for having better guarantees in privacy and all but i'll use whatever i have to
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:27:20 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net You keep bringing up security. I never mentioned security. The free software movement is not about security.
     
     But proprietary software is inherently abusive.
     
     If the users do not control the software, the software controls the users.
     
     It's one or the other. You can not avoid this fact by "putting it in a secure sandbox".
     
     The free software movement is about solving a philosophical injustice though hacking the copyright system, it's not about solving a technical problem like an engineer like the "open source" shills want you to believe.

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:27:21 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq proprietary software doesn't hold me against my will and abuse me, i open it like any other program, i do what i need to do, and thats that. if i'm paranoid about security i'll airgap and put in a vm or container. if it does the job better or i have to use it (for example from network effect) thats fine. its really not like jail because you can choose to just not use it, which is fine but it isn't inherently abusive so theres no reason i see to do that personally. it's not like i'm using goggle chrome as my daily browser and selling my privacy
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:50:53 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net i do not patch 99% of my software so there's zero reason i should give a shitThe freedom to modify the software is only 1 of the 4 freedoms. You are again missing the point.
     i believe the foss movement at large stands functionally opposed to real copyright abolitionPlease do not use "FOSS" as that groups me together with the open source people who I oppose.
     
     The "open source" people are simple status quo normies, they are not in favor of any changes to copyright law because they will say some asinine shit like "NOOOO MY FAVORITE BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY MIGHT LOSE SOME MONEY"
     
     I'm very sure that most of the people in the free software movement are in fact in favor of copyright abolition or at the very least heavy reforms. Stallman for example thinks copyright shouldn't last longer than 10 years among many other reforms.
     
     Copyright versus Community in the Age of Computer Networks
     due to the worship of shit like the gpl that heavily depend on copyrightNot true at all. Copyleft is currently just a means to an end, but not an ideal solution. Ideally we would have actual laws that forced all software developer to grant their users freedom, regardless of copyright.

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 21:50:54 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq i mention security because that is my concern. i do not patch 99% of my software so there's zero reason i should give a shit about whether i can or not, thats not "controlling" me, its just a fucking program you use, it isn't doing anything to you
     also i dont give a shit about copyright and i believe the foss movement at large stands functionally opposed to real copyright abolition due to the worship of shit like the gpl that heavily depend on copyright. me personally i go for public domain equivalents if i intend to share my code otherwise i dont bother
   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 22:45:13 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq > Ideally we would have actual laws that forced all software developer to grant their users freedom, regardless of copyright.
     no reason to, against the authors freedom, violates nap. but also totally fine if software is reverse engineered, decompiled, hacked, distributed wtv.
     and yeah open source is the only one that matters for knowing what the programs doing, the other shit is ultimately irrelavent as a user 99,9% of the time
     
     and missing the point? no, i just think its all retarded
     > The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).
     you can already do this for most cases. sure oh i might pick the foss solution because of some proprietary programs restrictions, but if i can use that, well then it doesnt matter
     > The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1).
     > Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
     not necessary and coerces developers to do things in a certain way. fine if you want to include that in your software but no reason to make it law (like with restrictive licenses like the gpl)
     > The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others (freedom 2).
     yeah agreed copyright is bs and neither user nor developer should be able to be coerced into anything
     > The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
     this is just 1 and 2 combined, same applies
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 22:47:34 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Dumb Idiot Retard
     • Johnny Peligro

     @idiot@shitposter.world @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @foxhkron@cybre.club Vala is literally made for GTK. If your goal is to make a GTK application specifically, Vala is perfectly adequate.

   • Embed this notice
     Dumb Idiot Retard (idiot@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 22:47:35 JST Dumb Idiot Retard

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Johnny Peligro
     @mischievoustomato @SuperDicq @foxhkron >Bitching about Swift being specific to Apple
     >why not try Vala?
     Now THAT’S an awful fedi post
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 22:49:42 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net against the authors freedom, violates napIf you want to go with libertarian rhetoric, a big argument can made for the fact that authors should not be able to take freedom away from their users. Your freedom ends where mine begins.
     
     Distributing software while not including the source code with the program is taking people's freedom away, violating "the nap" in my opinion.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 23:11:14 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Suzu

     @Suzu@detroitriotcity.com @foxhkron@cybre.club Yes, but then still I don't understand what advantage using Swift will give you over literally anything else.

   • Embed this notice
     Suzu (suzu@detroitriotcity.com)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 23:11:15 JST Suzu

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron well, the simplest solution is to never target iOS or MacOS because they are all proprietary garbage
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 23:14:30 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Protoss

     @nigger@spergia.net @foxhkron@cybre.club I wouldn't

   • Embed this notice
     Protoss (nigger@spergia.net)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 23:14:31 JST Protoss

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron but why would you be building iOS apps anyway?
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 23:52:11 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Rain

     @rain@melonbread.xyz Independent browser
     Completely relies on Github and Discord for its development.

   • Embed this notice
     Rain (rain@melonbread.xyz)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 23:52:13 JST Rain

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo Mind you the browser does not claim to even be in Alpha yet, but when I tried to load the Fedi on a nightly build a couple days ago it would not load properly so yeah I high doubt it will get their own chat platform working on it.
     
     I feel they are all "hype" with little substance for people to hang onto. I do think there is a good market and spot for a true "independent browser" (or whatever tagline they were using), but I do not think #Ladybird is the horse to bet on as I feel they will eventually sizzle out into nothing.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 23:53:33 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Rain

     @rain@melonbread.xyz And it's not even that much work to set up your own git host and xmpp or matrix server or whatever.
     
     Many projects do this.

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 26-Sep-2025 23:59:05 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Johnny Peligro
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron @mischievoustomato Total Rust death, it is less proprietary than swift after all.
   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 00:08:13 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron The toolchain is quite literally open and not centered around Xcode for years now. What requires Xcode are the various mac/*OS specific SDKs. The core language and a lot of the core libraries are also open.
     
     https://github.com/swiftlang
     Johnny Peligro likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 00:12:46 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net Manufacturing instructions are not the same thing as source code.
     
     Instead not having the source code is more akin to buying a car on which only the manufacturer has the keys that open the hood in order to modify or service it.
     
     Yes, most people don't need to ever go in there because they just let a shop do it.
     
     But having the hood of your car inaccessible is really fucking bad, because that means you also can't go to your favorite garage either.
     
     You will be forced to go back to the one who holds the key, every single time.
     
     Oh and as an added bonus the car comes with a contract that if you try to pick the lock to open anyway it you might get thrown in jail.

     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 00:12:47 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq i agree that your freedom ends where mine beguns. i disagree not including the code is revoking freedom. do you need the manufacturing instructions of every step of what you buy or acquire? same thing, i see it as unnecessary. and it infringes on the authors freedom without good reason. you can just choose not to use doftware that does that. theres a few things you still realistically cant use foss for and that sucks for you, but for everything else youd be opting in to using it, that doesnt make the author need to do extra for you. theyre not your slave. you have no contract. you just chose to run an executable
   • Embed this notice
     Rain (rain@melonbread.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 00:15:31 JST Rain

     in reply to

     @SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo Trust me the irony is far from lost on me. Very much reminds me of every time a I see a Open Source (TM) project claim how much they love privacy/freedom and then in the next like state how they would love to have you submit a GitHub pull request and join them on Discord. It is all LARPing for the sake of it.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 00:22:06 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Phantasm
     • Johnny Peligro

     @phnt@fluffytail.org @foxhkron@cybre.club @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love It doesn't say that anywhere.

   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 00:22:07 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Johnny Peligro
     @SuperDicq @foxhkron @mischievoustomato
     Copyright © 2017-2025 Lain Pleroma.
     
     Pleroma and the Pleroma logo are trademarks of Lain Pleroma.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 00:24:20 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Toromino #Team9€
     • Phantasm

     @phnt@fluffytail.org @foxhkron@cybre.club It's still centered around Xcode.
     
     The fact that other toolchain implementation exist does not mean that anyone except Xcode users aren't treated like second class citizens.

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 01:31:29 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net Nobody in the world owns a car like this. And nobody would find these terms acceptable.
     
     And even in software most people don't actually find it acceptable, but they have been conditioned to live with it. Even though deep down inside they know this is an injustice.

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 01:31:30 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq thats annoying but if its an acceptable contract for some and they both consent they can do it
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 02:48:31 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net Yes, but you didn't read my post. If the manufacturer puts a lock on your hood you can't even take it to any random mechanic, which would be reasonable. No, now you are to take it to the manufacturer only.
     
     In software the same thing applies.
     
     Even if you're not a programmer you might want to pay to someone to fix bugs or add custom features for you.
     
     With proprietary software you're not able to do this. All you can do is beg to the original developer to help you. You can not hire someone else.

   • Embed this notice
     Ube Maija (ube@spergia.net)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 02:48:32 JST Ube Maija

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq a lot of people dont know how to fix a car and just take it to the mechanics id dare even say the majority
     
     > Even though deep down inside they know this is an injustice.
     nah it has never made sense to me genuinelly confusing
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 27-Sep-2025 02:49:56 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Ube Maija

     @ube@spergia.net And as a programming freelancer this is a huge thing. A lot of my income comes from clients who hire me to work on their existing free software, not making new software from scratch.