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   Grafcube (grafcube@sakurajima.social)'s status on Saturday, 02-Aug-2025 16:48:51 JST Grafcube

   Discord is my most used app and I hate it. Matrix has a whole host of issues and I'm done with it. IRC is fine but it's no discord.
   
   Clearly we need to bring back XMPP :laughing_cirno:
   
   But honestly that wouldn't be a bad idea. If I get some free time I might try to make a discord like XMPP client.
   
   #xmpp #discord #irc #matrix

   • Kari'boka likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Grafcube (grafcube@sakurajima.social)'s status on Saturday, 02-Aug-2025 16:49:25 JST Grafcube

     in reply to

     • Kris

     @kris@outmo.de interesting. I don't fully understand the protocol as I'm still in the process of reading the related docs bur iiuc the server needs to handle managing and discovering spaces. Does it use some preexisting mechanism to do that?

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   • Embed this notice
     Kris (kris@outmo.de)'s status on Saturday, 02-Aug-2025 16:49:27 JST Kris

     in reply to
     @grafcube XEP-503 doesn't need specific server support according to the author and Slidge Discord gateway developer. It is more of a question of clients displaying the spaces properly.
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   • Embed this notice
     Grafcube (grafcube@sakurajima.social)'s status on Saturday, 02-Aug-2025 16:49:28 JST Grafcube

     in reply to

     I need to check if ejabberd supports XEP-0503

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   • Embed this notice
     Kris (kris@outmo.de)'s status on Saturday, 02-Aug-2025 16:50:11 JST Kris

     in reply to
     @grafcube Someone seems to have had a similar idea and started working on it here: https://github.com/iquercorb/xows
     
     Otherwise, being like Discord isn't really a goal of Movim ( https://movim.eu ), but it has a lot of features that people consider important in Discord, such as audio / video group calls with screen-sharing, Stickers and custom emojis.
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   • Embed this notice
     Kari'boka (kariboka@social.harpia.red)'s status on Saturday, 02-Aug-2025 16:50:33 JST Kari'boka

     in reply to
     @grafcube please do!
   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Saturday, 02-Aug-2025 16:50:35 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     • Goffi
     • Kris
     • Movim
     • Prose

     @kris @grafcube

     #Movim by @movim is definitely worth considering, also #Prose by @prose and #Libervia by @Goffi!

     Thanks for the link to #XoWS — never heard of it so far!

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   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 01:32:15 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     @grafcube XMPP is cool but what about ActivityPub? I've seen attempts to build Discord alternatives on it, e.g. https://github.com/MaddyUnderStars/shoot

   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 02:10:12 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     • 👺防空識別區👹

     @adiz

     >I'm actually very surprised at how popular Matrix became

     I was a big Matrix proponent in the past because I liked Riot/Element web client and because developers promised decentralized identity, p2p networking and other nice things. None of that has materialized.

     >But, XMPP already exists

     Yeah, but I just want to chat using my fedi account. I hate to use Matrix and XMPP for chats, Email for notifications, ActivityPub and RSS for publishing/subscribing. All of this should be a single protocol.

     @grafcube

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     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 02:10:14 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • silverpill

     @silverpill Interesting. But, XMPP already exists and is pretty mature insofar as protocol with multiple server implementations and preexisting clients.

     I agree with @grafcube , though: Discord is cursed and Matrix is frustrating. I'm actually very surprised at how popular Matrix became considering how janky it is both as a host and as a user vs. how comparatively simple it is to get an XMPP server up and running (and staying running). And, how comparatively speedy and reliable it is as a user, despite faults with clients.

     Johnny Peligro repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 04:29:11 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     • 👺防空識別區👹
     • admin

     @admin @adiz @grafcube Yes, it was in 2024 and it went further downhill from there. If I remember correctly, the person who used to work on P2P quit Matrix (he also worked on Dendrite)

   • Embed this notice
     admin (admin@friendica.0ut0f.space)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 04:29:18 JST admin

     in reply to

     • silverpill
     • 👺防空識別區👹

     @silverpill @adiz @grafcube They hint that p2p may be implemented after someone fund this
     matrix.org/blog/2024/10/29/mat…

     > And then, in the longer term - what might Matrix 3.0 bring? Honestly, at this point, it’s an open question. Could it be landing major Trust & Safety changes in order to radically empower users to avoid and mitigate abuse? Could it be switching to MLS (or Decentralised MLS) for encryption? Could it be the glorious return of P2P Matrix (if it was funded)? Could it even be figuring out if/how to converge with (or layer on top of) MIMI or other federation protocols? Answers on a postcard to #sct-office:matrix.org please!

     Btw IETF's MIMI looks interesting

   • Embed this notice
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 04:30:56 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • silverpill
     • 👺防空識別區👹
     @silverpill @adiz @grafcube > All of this should be a single protocol.
     Uhhh no
     ahhhhhhhhhh.jpg
   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 04:53:21 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     • 👺防空識別區👹

     @adiz

     >Probably a pipe-dream, but it doesn't seem like it ought have to be a pipe-dream.

     It's not a pipe dream. There are two practical peer-to-peer technologies: Tor and I2P. Both are very mature, and both can be used for decentralized social apps and chats

     Other P2P stacks are either too new, or lack privacy and expose your IP address - that is a deal breaker in my opinion.

     >I don't know how performant ActivityPub would be for instant messaging.

     ActivityPub is good, we just send small JSON documents to each other. My server can deliver several hundreds of those documents in a minute.

     @grafcube

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     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 04:53:22 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • silverpill

     @silverpill
     >decentralized identity, p2p networking

     I am such a big proponent of these things. I really want to see a P2P networking solution with decentralized identity that circumvents the need for servers and domains, etc.. Probably a pipe-dream, but it doesn't seem like it ought have to be a pipe-dream.

     >None of that has materialized.

     Many such cases……

     >All of this should be a single protocol.

     I don't know how performant ActivityPub would be for instant messaging. For example, despite all the attention Delta Chat gets from its proponents, it's pretty lousy and janky as a messenger because (surprise, surprise) SMTP isn't the best protocol for facilitating messaging and requires a lot of other stuff to get bootstrapped on top of it for full expected functionality to exist. In many respects SMTP isn't ideal even for email nowadays with the choice of alternative protocols that have since come after it. At one point in time there was even a motion to replace SMTP with XMPP! @grafcube

   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 06:55:35 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     • 👺防空識別區👹
     • admin

     @adiz @admin @grafcube I don't fully understand their org structure. There is a foundation that supposed to be independent, and it works on protocol improvements. But independence from Element seems to entail the lack of funding, so things like P2P were put on pause.

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     👺防空識別區👹 (adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 06:55:37 JST 👺防空識別區👹

     in reply to

     • silverpill
     • admin

     @silverpill Dendrite was supposed to fix so many problems of Matrix's current performance on Synapse. Unfortunate that the project stalled and is kinda dead-in-the-water. Also, re funding, didn't Element take over the Matrix project or something with there income streams coming from professional Matrix + Element deployments for companies and governments as like a Microsoft Teams competitor? @admin @grafcube

   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 07:27:51 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     • gvs
     • 👺防空識別區👹

     @gvs It's convenient. I would prefer to use a single app for all those things.

     @adiz @grafcube

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     gvs (gvs@rebelbase.site)'s status on Monday, 04-Aug-2025 07:27:53 JST gvs

     in reply to

     • silverpill
     • 👺防空識別區👹
     @silverpill
     Why should they be a single protocol? Though a single identity may be nice
     @adiz @grafcube
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     Baessando ☭🇧🇷🇵🇸🇺🇳 (pbaesse@bolha.one)'s status on Tuesday, 05-Aug-2025 05:16:27 JST Baessando ☭🇧🇷🇵🇸🇺🇳

     in reply to

     • Kari'boka

     @grafcube @kariboka I did a quick search and I yeah no #discord like #xmpp clients. What a shame :clippyHurricane: this should be solved quickly hoHOhoH

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