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1. Embed this notice
   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:21:21 JST Paul Cantrell

   I’ve generally disliked my institution’s LMS (that’s software to track course assignments, grades, etc.) since I first started using it in 2008. Grudgingly tolerated, but disliked.

   Today, however, that changed. Today, to see if something I wanted to do was technically possible, I finally dug into the source code.

   Where there was dislike, there is now terror. I have no idea how this software runs, ever, at all. I don’t understand how it isn’t hacked •constantly•. I am not sure if I will ever use it again. I am not sure if I will ever use a computer again. The code sits somewhere between “maniacal conspiracy theorist corkboard” and “eldrich horror.”

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:23:41 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     @inthehands Just drop a hint of that to students and sit back with some 🍿

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:24:09 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Fortunately a walk with my spouse and some delicious Ethiopian food cured everything.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:24:46 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker

     @dalias
     Oh, they will be hearing about it. I’ve already pulled up the interface as a case study in bad UI design multiple times.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:25:47 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6

     @paul_ipv6
     Not in-house! Venerable open source. Just very “We made terrible mistakes in PHP in 2002 and have been building on them ever since!” code.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:25:48 JST Paul_IPv6

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     much like the dancing bear, in-house software is not judged by how well it dances but is amazing it dances at all. ;)

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:28:05 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6

     @paul_ipv6
     I mean, I’ve delved deep into the source code for Wordpress — and ~20 years ago, when it was still complete chaos.

     This? This was a whole other level.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:28:06 JST Paul_IPv6

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     ah, PHP.

     i had the "good" fortune to deal with a drupal site as their way of doing PHP.

     not for the faint of heart. nor anyone who is on call after hours.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:31:19 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Paul_IPv6

     @paul_ipv6
     That was essentially the conclusion I came to, yes.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul_IPv6 (paul_ipv6@infosec.exchange)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:31:20 JST Paul_IPv6

     in reply to

     @inthehands

     perhaps just putting a "no user serviceable parts inside" label on it and walk away? :)

   • Embed this notice
     Ryan Zoeller (rtzoeller@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:33:29 JST Ryan Zoeller

     in reply to

     @inthehands is it moodle? It's always moodle.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:44:05 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Alan Chen

     @digikata
     True. The stories I’ve heard online through maybe-credible sources about the software that runs them are one of several reasons (each one along individually sufficient) that I refuse to ever set foot in a Tesla.

   • Embed this notice
     Alan Chen (digikata@fosstodon.org)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:44:06 JST Alan Chen

     in reply to

     @inthehands at least its not flying a plane or driving a car

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:48:14 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     Because you are all dying to know, I’m sure, a sketch, I’ll give a taste:

     The thing about this codebase is that it isn’t just a mass of spaghetti code. Not at all! It is structured and carefully organized. The structure involves all sorts of indirection masquerading as abstraction, clever PHP metaprogramming more clever than it is wise, robust generality achieved by long chains of bafflingly specific conditionals, near-total duplication of entire files all placed in their proper location within a deeply nester directory tree showing multiple archeological layers of ad hoc abstractions, all accomplishing a variety of bog-standard “display and submit a web form” sorts of tasks.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 11:52:52 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     It should be said, of course, that I can have the pleasure of experiencing this horror only because it’s OSS.

     What lurks in the closed-source alternatives? We can only speculate.

   • Embed this notice
     A Bitwise (abitwise@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 26-Jul-2025 12:24:46 JST A Bitwise

     in reply to

     @inthehands Sounds like some of the worst code I’ve encountered. It was clearly written by someone smart. Someone looking for an intellectual challenge. Smart enough to apply all kinds of design patterns. Just not (I suspect) experienced enough to realize they were grossly over-engineering something that should have been simple.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 27-Jul-2025 08:06:08 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • B Haas

     @belehaa @dalias
     I’ve used Canvas too. It’s better-ish in that it’s less broken, but they do all kind of suck.

   • Embed this notice
     B Haas (belehaa@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 27-Jul-2025 08:06:09 JST B Haas

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker

     @inthehands @dalias Having used some version of almost all the big LMSes over the years, I can tell you that Moodle's is not the worst UI design among them
     The bar for a "good" LMS is so low! And yet they all basically trip right over it!