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   Danielle Foré (danirabbit@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 08:44:40 JST Danielle Foré

   • Rich Felker
   • David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

   @ska I think you should think about how the entire premise of your post is the trans women aren’t real women and then delete it and feel bad

   @dalias @david_chisnall

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 08:44:39 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

     @danirabbit @ska @david_chisnall I don't think that was the premise. There likely were some problematic ideas there which went over my head, but the idea seems to be that the supposed discouragement parents/teachers/whoever applied to cis girls wasn't applied to trans girls when those people thought they were boys.

   • Embed this notice
     Danielle Foré (danirabbit@mastodon.online)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 10:32:18 JST Danielle Foré

     in reply to

     @dalias yeah which is “male socialization” rhetoric which is transphobia

     @ska @david_chisnall

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 10:34:12 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Klara på Kråkmakargatan ❤️
     • David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

     @boo_ @danirabbit @ska @david_chisnall At least a good part of society's/parents'/teachers' misogyny *does* get applied to many trans girls even not knowing they're girls, merely on the basis of seeing them as effeminate, "not boy enough", etc. But especially at the time my generation was growing up, nerdy things were deemed "appropriate" for "boys who aren't boy enough".

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Klara på Kråkmakargatan ❤️ (boo_@im-in.space)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 10:34:13 JST Klara på Kråkmakargatan ❤️

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

     @danirabbit @dalias @ska @david_chisnall

     Sorry, but I *really* don't think that's what they're saying here.

     People's perceptions of someone don't necessarily align well with internal identity. We trans people know that better than most, I would argue. The way someone is treated growing up, and the resources and encouragement they may have been offered does NOT invalidate their identity. I can hold that I am a woman, *and* that others' perceptions of me growing up have shaped which interests of mine they nurtured. Many cis women do not get the same opportunities that I have, *not* because of my identity, the validity thereof, or their identity, but because of others' perceptions and their sexist notions.

     To me, it is a far stretch to go from pointing out that « society largely has sexist attitudes which are applied based on bigoted people's perceptions of others » to « trans women are men because they were raised as such. » Actually, these are diametrically opposed points in my view.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Klara på Kråkmakargatan ❤️ (boo_@im-in.space)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 11:06:27 JST Klara på Kråkmakargatan ❤️

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

     @dalias @danirabbit @ska @david_chisnall

     I also want to stress that I don't think the solution for making Free Software (or tech in general) spaces more welcoming differs between trans women or cis women. What we're talking about here is specifically the *how we got here*, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, looking forward, increasing inclusivity doesn't divide us between races, being trans or cis, etc. The fundamental goal is to *include* more people and that is done by being more welcoming. I think that more women (*all* women) in the space will naturally make the space more welcoming to women (again, *all* women,) because that is what I see in the communities I am personally in, both on- and offline.