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1. Embed this notice
   Gabe (gabriel@mk.gabe.rocks)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 02:23:47 JST Gabe

   It's time for war!
   What (decentralized) messenger is actually good?
   For the purposes of the question your favorite client is what counts.
   - Matrix (Message cant be decrypted)
   - XMPP (Does calling work?)
   - SimpleX (Muh metadata)
   - Delta Chat (just use email lol)
   - Jami (No chat but GNU chat)
   - IRC (Get off my lawn zoomers)

   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 02:23:46 JST djsumdog

     in reply to
     God they all suck. Matrix sends your identity data to their identity server by default, even with your own home server. Loading new spaces/servers takes FOREVER. But at least encryption works (because sometimes it doesn't) even though the servers can't scale without buying their enterprise Rust package. Most of the bridges are broken or aren't consistent.
     
     XMPP is pretty damn old. No long term chat history without some configuration work. A lot of the clients suck. Many different ways to do the same thing via components and no guarantee components are available on both servers. Encryption is bolt-on. But I guess it works and is more open than Matrix.
     
     IRC is super old and lacks everything, but all the open source communities still use it. I honestly only get on to get support. I miss the days of FServers (which most IRC networks no longer allow). We're never going to see an IRCv2.
     
     ...haven't used any of the others.
   • Embed this notice
     waifu (waifu@mai.waifuism.life)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 02:45:13 JST waifu

     in reply to

     @gabriel@mk.gabe.rocks I think the one with most potential is xmpp but the clients just make it trash

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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 04:28:46 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • Encyclopædia Autistica (Order Now!)
     • Vokainen
     Wasn't XMPP originally Cisco/Jabber? Like .. it did have backing, and it literally has a foundation: the XMPP Standard Foundation (XSF)
     
     https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation/
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     Encyclopædia Autistica (Order Now!) (mrsaturday@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 04:28:51 JST Encyclopædia Autistica (Order Now!)

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     @djsumdog @gabriel Matrix seems like a classic case of open source jank that will never get fixed because the devs want to pursue their own goals and projects rather than actually improve the core software.
     
     IRC has existed for the sake of itself for 15 years now. Better options keep coming along but it's here because the graybeards are firmly attached to it as a source of identity.
     
     XMPP would be great if it was still 2009.
   • Embed this notice
     Vokainen (vokainen099@cawfee.club)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 04:28:51 JST Vokainen

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Encyclopædia Autistica (Order Now!)
     @mrsaturday @djsumdog @gabriel The problem is that XMPP has lent code and ideas to some degree to all the various WhatsApp/Telegram/Whatever since forever.
     
     Had someone built an "XMPP Foundation" with proper backing, and brought an Android app to the store in like 2008/2009, XMPP would be king right now.
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 04:34:00 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • gray
     • Encyclopædia Autistica (Order Now!)
     • Vokainen
     They implemented XMPP, but broke federation without any notice in 2014. Facebook had an XMPP interface to messenger, but it never federated and was horribly unreliable and they removed support for it eventually.
   • Embed this notice
     gray (gray@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 04:34:01 JST gray

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Encyclopædia Autistica (Order Now!)
     • Vokainen
     @djsumdog @vokainen099 @gabriel @mrsaturday Google Talk or Chat or whatever it was called was based on XMPP.
   • Embed this notice
     casey is remote (realcaseyrollins@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 08:24:42 JST casey is remote

     in reply to

     @gabriel Thoughts on #Tox?

     I generally prefer #Matrix if I NEED #E2EE but it's hard to get people to use it. #IRC is my favorite because of high compatibility, seems like it's the easiest chat system to write a client for.

   • Embed this notice
     Gianmarco Gargiulo (gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 16:37:46 JST Gianmarco Gargiulo

     in reply to

     @gabriel I'm working with some friends on an alternative from scratch to all of these as we are discontent as much as you are about them. No guarantees, especially since we just started, but we want to reach a sensible amount of features that's comparable to Telegram, Discord and even Mumble, all in one native desktop app (and possibly a mobile client in the future).

   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jun-2025 20:38:09 JST lainy

     in reply to
     @gabriel deltachat, everything else delivers less for more work
     pwm likes this.
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     nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: (nyanide@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jun-2025 20:41:58 JST nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face:

     in reply to
     @gabriel tor irc lmao
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     vaartis running up that hill (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jun-2025 20:42:38 JST vaartis running up that hill

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     @djsumdog @gabriel we might never see irc v2, but we do have irc v3 https://ircv3.net/ :clueless:
     lainy likes this.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jun-2025 20:47:56 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Encyclopædia Autistica (Order Now!)
     • Vokainen
     @vokainen099 @djsumdog @gabriel @mrsaturday The kernel, Linux is not even source-available and the "Linux Foundation" is a copyright infringing club, which is about getting away with certain approved kinds of infringements of Linux's copyright via certain kinds of proprietary derivative works of Linux, distributed without source code available.
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     Vokainen (vokainen099@cawfee.club)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Jun-2025 20:47:57 JST Vokainen

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • Encyclopædia Autistica (Order Now!)
     @djsumdog @gabriel @mrsaturday The XSF only developed the protocol, basically. I was talking about a real foundation which also provided IT solutions based on XMPP.
     Kinda like the Linux Foundation, which keeps code open source, but is open to backing and development of solutions.
     
     XMPP has lent code to most current messaging apps, yet it has no usage per se outside of hobbyists. It could have been different indeed