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1. Embed this notice
   SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jun-2025 20:50:01 JST SuperDicq

   in reply to

   • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)

   @jn@boopsnoot.de That shouldn't be of any concern. I believe 9front is free software, meaning that the developers have no power over you.

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     jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31) (jn@boopsnoot.de)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jun-2025 20:50:04 JST jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)

     in reply to

     When Plan 9 was developed at Bell Labs, it wasn't like this, this nazi shit (that no amount of "nazi punks fuck off" can paint over) is a 9front addition.

     if i work with Plan 9, which i intend to do at some point, I'll be using 9legacy, which isn't... like this.

     https://github.com/0intro/9legacy

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     jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31) (jn@boopsnoot.de)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jun-2025 20:50:06 JST jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)

     in reply to

     the photo isn't credited. it shows men with shaved heads in cheap, uniform clothing, sitting in shelves. the photo was taken at the concentration prision in El Salvador (CECOT), to which the US has been deporting "gang members".

     the "back" side is even worse: just straight up nazi shit, namely the table of "Markierungen der Häftlinge", signs that prisoners in the Nazi concentration camps were forced to wear.

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     jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31) (jn@boopsnoot.de)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jun-2025 20:50:08 JST jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)

     in reply to

     the manual page for ns(1), a tool that lists the namespace of a process, to this day states: "46:The name of this tool is reminiscent of National Socialism and NeXTSTEP, it's hard to decide which one is worse", which is at best an incredibly trite attempt at humor.

     and it isn't all in the past. the poster for the current release ("clause 15 common elements of maus and star type") is a collage (credited to sl) of a drawing by prahou (whom i respect as an artist), and a photo

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     jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31) (jn@boopsnoot.de)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jun-2025 20:50:10 JST jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)

     Although there are things I like about the Plan 9 family of operating systems, I cannot in good conscience promote 9Front.

     Among the first commits in the git history was "Added /lib/meinkampf", followed, three months later (with a lot of regular development in the meantime), by "replaced /lib/meinkampf with something more sensible". You'd think this means they removed the nazi propaganda, but no, they replaced it with an english translation.

     (thread)

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: repeated this.
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     nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: (nyanide@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jun-2025 20:53:56 JST nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face:

     in reply to

     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     @jn cogito ergo cum
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jun-2025 21:42:32 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     @SuperDicq @jn Either 9front by default doesn't contain proprietary software, or they're just good at hiding it, as I wasn't able to find any in a quick look (I usually find lots in a quick search of the typical proprietary GNU/Linux distro).
     
     I noticed that there there are many source files missing copyright headers, which could be a problem if the license is not listed anywhere or there is no license.
     
     I found several references to proprietary software, as there are drivers that try loading proprietary software, meaning 9front is not a free OS, as it doesn't respect the users freedom.
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     EmoDagda (dagda@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 02:21:08 JST EmoDagda

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)

     @jn

     Within the /lib folder, 9front contains plain text copies of The Manifesto of the Communist Party, the Constitution of the United States, and many other highly important documents that have immense historical importance and so deserve a place in the official documentation of the operating system.

     https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/9front

     Mein Kampf is a disgusting text but it is historically relevant. Still it was replaced and also the other stuff you mentioned has also largely been changed in later versions.

     When Plan 9 was developed at Bell Labs, it wasn’t like this, this nazi shit (that no amount of “nazi punks fuck off” can paint over) is a 9front addition.

     A lot of former Bell labs people are working on 9Front, you do understand that community efforts have different social norms than corporate ones?

     You really seem like these peculiar people that struggle to build something great but excel at dragging others down. If you seriously think that neo national socialists are working on 9Front you are completely out of your fucking mind and consequently wrong on anything you ever said ever in the past, present or future

     @p get a load of this

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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 02:38:42 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @dagda @jn Well, he can't see me, I think.
     
     > Mein Kampf is a disgusting text but it is historically relevant
     
     Yeah; it was put there as a joke, but it is worth noting that historical revisionists make all sorts of claims that Hitler never hated Jews and never intended to get rid of them, etc., and they bank on people never having read Mein Kampf. If people don't know who Hitler was, then Hitler can be anyone that the situation requires him to have been: censoring history make it possible. This is why repressive regimes censor history.
     
     Aside from that, once you burn one book, any book, you're a book-burner. Some societies can survive only when information is censored: the easiest way to avoid living in such a society is to prevent censorship.
     
     > A lot of former Bell labs people are working on 9Front, you do understand that community efforts have different social norms than corporate ones?
     
     This is my issue with these people: they want the entire internet to have an HR department.
     
     > If you seriously think that neo national socialists are working on 9Front you are completely out of your fucking mind
     
     There was that guy that was harping on 9front for using a picture of Aushwitz to represent Ruby on Rails (which is funny and also a perfect representation of Rails; I don't care what anyone says). The guy turned out to work for a defense contractor and got kicked out of the Nix conference and cancelled and whatnot. A friend of mine at a different conference was talking about this and I said to him that the guy was over-zealos probably for the same reason Ice Cube said "Don't let it be a black and a white one"; I forget the phrase I used but he got the joke immediately. People that are overly eager to cancel other people are often loud about it because they are paranoid that they will be cancelled, too.
     nwa--fuck_the_police.mp3
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (sally@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 02:42:13 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @dagda @jn @p
     
     You don't understand, they put book I hate, I must hate them!
     
     
     Even the commies read and share that book, Mein Kampf is one of those works that commies have and read to make fun of the guy, I've got several Marxist collections from my commie days and that book was included in most of them so that you read it and either laugh or cringe at the deluded shit the guy wrote. It's specially funny how much he hated commies, remember that part where he's waiting at some train station?
     pistolero likes this.
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     𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (sally@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 02:42:33 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @dagda @jn @p
     
     > The Communist Manifesto
     
     Dogshit book.
     
     > Constitution
     
     Dogshit text.
     
     
     Historical works are often bad.
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     𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙 (sally@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 02:43:15 JST 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @dagda @jn @p
     
     
     They never bitch about Karl Marx even though he called Lasalle a jewish nigger, multiple times.
     pistolero likes this.
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     EmoDagda (dagda@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 02:43:21 JST EmoDagda

     in reply to

     • 𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙𝅙
     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     @sally @jn @p
     Picture of Karl Marx The jewis…
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 04:01:13 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     • Going Red
     @Simpadoo @dagda @jn I don't think we're going to agree on this, and there is a pretty high chance of a WW2 relitigation hellthread, but I will say what I've got to say.
     
     > Just out of the positions of power and influence in Germany.
     
     This hardly explains what happened to the Polish Jews. Stephan Banach was employed as a "lice feeder" because he wasn't allowed to do physics after Warsaw fell. This isn't like Hong Kong Cantonese resenting the Han, this is several steps past that.
     
     > nothing but the Allies bombing all the roads making it impossible to transport food
     
     We have lost mathematics because, although Stanislav Lisniewski died before the Nazis got to Warsaw, they burned his notes because it was Jew math. The modernist concept that progress is both inevitable and linear meant that if a Jew had discovered something and you burned his notes, it was only a matter of time before a German discovered the same thing, so the math books would have a German name if you burned the Jew's notes and drafts. Same thing with Deutschephysik and Heisenberg getting declared a "white Jew".
     
     > It’s why the allegations of Holocaust don’t crop up until several decades after.
     
     The Nuremberg trials were approved during the summer of 1945, right after V-E Day, and started November of the same year. If there is doubt about what it was called, that's news to me but if something happened, it's not very important what it was *called*.
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     Going Red (simpadoo@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 04:01:14 JST Going Red

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @p @dagda @jn I read the Dalton translation and yes, Hitler did hate the jew but nowhere in the translation I read anything that said he wanted to exterminate them. Just out of the positions of power and influence in Germany.
     
     IMO, the Big Shoah was nothing but the Allies bombing all the roads making it impossible to transport food to the work camps. It’s why the allegations of Holocaust don’t crop up until several decades after.
     
     It isn’t “History” if the purported horrors weren’t discussed or published until much later.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 06:17:23 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     • Going Red
     @Simpadoo @dagda @jn The engineeer that built the ovens was interrogated for the trials. I don't know what else you call it.
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     Going Red (simpadoo@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 06:17:24 JST Going Red

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @p @dagda @jn The Nuremberg trials never mentioned anything related to the Holohoax. It was all war crimes. The allegations on the mass murder of jews didn’t show up until decades later.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 06:21:35 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     • Going Red
     @Simpadoo @dagda @jn If the idea is that the accusations came much later, then the accusation happening in 1945 is the relevant part.
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     Going Red (simpadoo@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 06:21:37 JST Going Red

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @p @dagda @jn You mean the ovens that were so efficient we are unable recreate them now? Those ovens? I don’t see that questioning in the transcripts, BTW.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 06:44:19 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     • Going Red
     @Simpadoo @dagda @jn
     
     > Nothing about lampshades
     
     The lampshade stuff was a hoax and the guy (one might call him a Jewish version of Ernst Zundel) that made the claims has admitted that it was a hoax; the rest of it was more or less understood from the beginning, as there wasn't an iron curtain. And you have things like the Kristallnacht, where exactly the "pretend it never happened" line was used. Hitler met with American reporters the morning after, as they had a scheduled visit anyway, and just refused to address it. The obfuscation and blanket denials were part of the strategy from the beginning, and it's tedious to discuss. We're not going to agree, and even if we did, what does it get you?
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     Going Red (simpadoo@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jun-2025 06:44:20 JST Going Red

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @p @dagda @jn The guy may or may not have engineered an oven but the questions were all about crimes committed during the conduct of the war. Nothing about lampshades or anything related.
     
     All that shit came about decades later through books and movies.
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     Going Red (simpadoo@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 13-Jun-2025 01:27:46 JST Going Red

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)
     • EmoDagda
     @p @dagda @jn Agreement will not profit me. Kristallnacht did happen though, no disagreement there.
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     jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31) (jn@boopsnoot.de)'s status on Friday, 13-Jun-2025 03:22:28 JST jn RA, RB (primary opcode 31)

     in reply to

     This blew up a bit. I got many replies, ranging from harassment and gore to pretty thoughtful ones.

     So, what's my problem? I think jokes and art based on fascist materials make space for those who genuinely enjoy these materials.

     I wish the release collage came with a paragraph stating what is obvious to many but not all: It's a fucking disgrace to deport people and rip them out of their lives, and if we don't watch out we'll be reliving the 1940s faster than we're prepared for.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.