Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 06:10:30 JST clarity flowers

   I want a systems level programming language where the community isn't founded around how superior they are to everyone else. I like hanging out with esolang and catlang and apl people because they understand the inherent absurdity of it all and just wanna share ideas with each other.

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 06:34:52 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • Dr. Dek 👨‍🚀🐧🚀 )

     @portaloffreedom hadn't heard of this before! the self-description does feel decidedly un-dogmatic in comparison to some of the stuff out there. though admittedly I thought this about some languages before and have slowly revised my opinion over time. I wonder if you just end up forced into a dogmatic mentality by having to exist in this cultural context

   • Embed this notice
     Dr. Dek 👨‍🚀🐧🚀 ) (portaloffreedom@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 06:34:53 JST Dr. Dek 👨‍🚀🐧🚀 )

     in reply to

     @clarity maybe Carbon can deliver on this. One of the developers is on fedi and seems quite a chill person

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 07:14:28 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • Rob

     @robdaemon oh neat, how has using it been for you?

     I'm alluding to at least three or maybe or five communities tbh

   • Embed this notice
     Rob (robdaemon@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 07:14:29 JST Rob

     in reply to

     @clarity I almost feel like Ada fits this niche, just over there getting things done quietly.

     I've been using it for learning embedded stuff, because of what I've seen in the community you're alluding to

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 07:21:03 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • Rob

     @robdaemon neat! I'll probably sit down with it at some point

   • Embed this notice
     Rob (robdaemon@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 07:21:04 JST Rob

     in reply to

     @clarity so far so good - I can't say I'm super far into my journey, but I learned Pascal before C, so I have an affinity for Wirth-like languages.

     The community is smaller than Rust, C++, but larger than Nim / Zig (totally anecdotal on that)

     I like the type system, but some compiler errors can be inscrutable.

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 08:16:10 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • Rob

     @robdaemon ty!

   • Embed this notice
     Rob (robdaemon@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 08:16:11 JST Rob

     in reply to

     @clarity I am by no means an expert but willing to try and help if you run across any snags

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 10:07:45 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • firebreathingduck

     @firebreathingduck I don't think this is rare at all.

     I'm interested in Hare, though it's not a realistic option for gamedev for obvious reasons, and I mostly work on Mac, so I haven't really had any reason to look too deep into it.

   • Embed this notice
     firebreathingduck (firebreathingduck@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 10:07:46 JST firebreathingduck

     in reply to

     @clarity

     I find it fascinating that software development is a rare case where the politics and personalities around a set of tools can (and should) matter more than the tools themselves.

     I haven't done anything with the Hare language, but the language creator Drew Devault seems (don't take my word for it) committed to a welcoming community and a specific emphasis on not attacking alternatives.

     Good luck, no matter what languages you try.

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 11:55:23 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • kolunmi

     @kolunmi thanks, but what part of the post where I said "I love esolang communities" gave you the impression that I want to "only focus on ideas" lol

   • Embed this notice
     kolunmi (kolunmi@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 11:55:24 JST kolunmi

     in reply to

     @clarity Then use C. Ime 99% of C users with significant projects under their belt do not talk about C at all and only focus on ideas

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 11:59:50 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • kolunmi

     @kolunmi love C tho. great language

   • Embed this notice
     Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 12:10:44 JST Kit Rhett Aultman

     in reply to

     @clarity Never had a real problem with moral smugness among C coders. C++, yes. But not C.

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 12:12:39 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • kolunmi

     @kolunmi You seem to have drastically misinterpreted me at every step of the way, so probably best to cut your losses here and move on. I hope you've had a nice day.

   • Embed this notice
     kolunmi (kolunmi@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 12:12:41 JST kolunmi

     in reply to

     @clarity This part: "just wanna share ideas with each other."

     You can write esolangs just fine with C. Also I don't know what you mean by "the sense that C programmers share ideas". If you are implying that all the ideas you wish to discuss have to do with demoing the language you are using, then sure I'll be frank, you probably aren't going to encounter many individuals who lack a superiority complex.

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 12:13:04 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • Kit Rhett Aultman

     @roadriverrail cool is there a "C coders" discord I can hang out in, or

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 12:21:54 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     if I get one more "why not just C" response I'm gonna delete this post. I promise that I have heard of the C programming language.

   • Embed this notice
     Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 12:22:19 JST Kit Rhett Aultman

     in reply to

     @clarity I don't really use Discord for that. I'm on one that's for, like, queer operating system devs, but I haven't checked the messages on there in several years. I imagine a lot of them use C, though.

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 13:18:26 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • Gildilinie BLU-RAY(tm) EDITION

     @gildilinie … no, actually, I hadn't

   • Embed this notice
     Gildilinie BLU-RAY(tm) EDITION (gildilinie@beige.party)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 13:18:27 JST Gildilinie BLU-RAY(tm) EDITION

     in reply to

     @clarity but have you heard of PDP 11 assembly

   • Embed this notice
     young man yells at the cloud (bamboombibbitybop@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 14:30:38 JST young man yells at the cloud

     in reply to

     @clarity is this post about Rust? because I feel like it's about Rust

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Apr-2025 14:30:38 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • young man yells at the cloud

     @bamboombibbitybop it's about most system language communities

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2025 01:00:41 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • firebreathingduck

     @firebreathingduck sure, but I might recyonsider what car I'm driving because the owner of the business is instating a coup.

     I think the reason we think of tools as "neutral" is that mass production and commodification intentionally alienates us from their origins and positioning within the world and lets them arrive to us as blank slates, wiped clean of meaning. Software just hasn't been sufficiently captured enough to inflict this sort of "neutrality." It seems like AI may "help" with that.

   • Embed this notice
     firebreathingduck (firebreathingduck@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2025 01:00:42 JST firebreathingduck

     in reply to

     @clarity I'm thinking of medicine, or construction. Nobody is going to avoid prescribing a particular drug or medical test because the company behind it are jerks. Nobody is going to break up concrete with a chisel instead of a jackhammer because the jackhammer team is arrogant.

     But if I am writing something in Basic and find the community insufferable and bigoted, it's valid to switch to Smalltalk. (I picked those examples at random.)

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2025 01:54:33 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • 45c3IF85N

     @45c3IF85N oh, yeah, I mean, I'm already doing that and it's great

   • Embed this notice
     45c3IF85N (45c3if85n@mstdn.party)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2025 01:54:34 JST 45c3IF85N

     in reply to

     @clarity Just learn language with 0 job opportunities. If there will be no competition, there will be no competitive people.

   • Embed this notice
     clarity flowers (clarity@xoxo.zone)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2025 01:56:18 JST clarity flowers

     in reply to

     • firebreathingduck

     @firebreathingduck yeah absolutely. This is why it's such a good feeling to buy locally-sourced-and-made things. They're an order of magnitude more expensive, sure, but you get what you pay for.

   • Embed this notice
     firebreathingduck (firebreathingduck@social.vivaldi.net)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Apr-2025 01:56:19 JST firebreathingduck

     in reply to

     @clarity

     Oh, that's an angle I hadn't considered. Thank you.

     I mean, obviously I would consider what car I drive for the reasons you state. My ten year old dream of owning a car with the nifty 'T' logo is dead.

     I just hadn't thought to put it into the same category as choosing a programming language.

     Edit: agreed completely on production and commodification. One of my daughters refuses to shop at Shein or Temu because of their known use of child labor. My wife counters that every other vendor probably does the same, but does a better job concealing their supply chain.