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   Антон Сычёв (inyanblood@suya.place)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 19:38:19 JST Антон Сычёв
   I'm in love with debian
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 19:38:17 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @inyanblood Why would you be in love with a proprietary distro?: https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html#Debian
     
     Debian automatically installs proprietary software that takes the users freedom without asking the user if the proprietary script detects that the hardware could use it.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:04:23 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • vxn
     @vxn @inyanblood Devuan appears to inherit the same problems as Debian, as it's Debian with some patches to a bunch of packages to allow them to work without systemd.
     
     Currently it seems Devuan uses the free old version of the installer (the one without proprietary software and that doesn't install proprietary software without you confirming), but I suspect that Devuan will inherit Debian's proprietary installer once they get around to supporting an installer for newer releases.
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     vxn (vxn@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:04:24 JST vxn

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @inyanblood What about Devuan?
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:16:33 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • vxn
     @vxn @inyanblood I'm not in love with any distro, as so far no distro always respects the uses freedom, is free from systemd and doesn't have too steep drawbacks.
     
     Gentoo is possible to use in freedom and use without systemd, but you have to fight hard to have freedom, as many developers don't want you to have freedom and include proprietary licenses in the "@FREE" set and put the wrong license on ebuilds that install proprietary software.
     
     Trisquel GNU/Linux-libre is acceptable for systems I occasionally use, as systemd doesn't break things too much in that case and how it requires no maintenance except for an occasional update that almost always works is convenient.
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     vxn (vxn@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:16:34 JST vxn

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @inyanblood As per https://www.devuan.org/os/packages :
     "Note that all software shipped with Devuan in the main component is free software.", hopefully they stand by this as much as they do with Init Freedom.
     what distribution are you "in love" with?
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:20:18 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • vxn
     @menherahair @vxn @inyanblood How slimy.
     
     I looked at the installers and figured that they were smaller than Debian's installers (which I assumed was maybe because huge amounts of proprietary software wasn't included), but I guess the only reason why they were smaller was due to not including systemd.
     
     
     It is not firmware, as there is nothing firm about it - what is being shipped is proprietary *software*.
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     menherahair (menherahair@eientei.org)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:20:19 JST menherahair

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • vxn
     @Suiseiseki @vxn @inyanblood devuan has been shipping nonfree firmware with the installer even before debian began to.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:29:42 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     • vxn
     @vxn @menherahair @inyanblood If the installer contains proprietary software, you have installed proprietary software and are subjected to all the proprietary licenses on that software - meaning you cannot exercise the 4 freedoms with that installer.
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     vxn (vxn@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:29:43 JST vxn

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     • menherahair
     @menherahair @Suiseiseki @inyanblood that might be the case, but as far as I know, the installer always prompted you about it, and non free software won't be installed unless you specify "Yes".
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:34:31 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • vxn
     @vxn @inyanblood You set ACCEPT_LICENSE="-* @FSF-APPROVED @FSF-APPROVED-OTHER" and manually review each license and add them to ACCEPT LICENSE if they are free.
     
     Alternatively you can set; ACCEPT_LICENSE="-* @FREE -Artistic -NPSL-0.95" and hope more proprietary licenses haven't been added to "@FREE".
     
     
     You also have to be careful of proprietary ebuilds with the wrong license too - for example all the linux ebuilds should be LICENSE="GPL-2-only no-source-code", but the Gentoo developers instead have hidden the issue by setting it to; LICENSE="GPL-2"
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     vxn (vxn@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 20:34:32 JST vxn

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @inyanblood >Gentoo is possible to use in freedom and use without systemd, but you have to fight hard to have freedom, as many developers don't want you to have freedom and include proprietary licenses in the "@FREE" set and put the wrong license on ebuilds that install proprietary software.
     are there any guides for maintaining a free system using Gentoo?
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 21:01:36 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • vxn
     @vxn @inyanblood It's a normal Gentoo installation, except you don't follow the instructions to install proprietary software and you install GNU Linux-libre from the source tarball rather than from the proprietary Linux ebuild's (yes,Gentoo is only free by default, since by default they don't include Linux).
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     vxn (vxn@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 21:01:37 JST vxn

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @inyanblood Informative, thank you. Aside from this I assume it's just a normal Gentoo installation, correct? Oh and I guess it's mandatory to compile the kernel then
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 21:11:49 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • vxn
     @vxn @inyanblood The only note in a few places on the site that LICENSE is often wrong - rather than plaster it everywhere.
     
     I don't get why so many licenses are wrong - even GNU packages are not spared, even though for most GNU packages all it takes is 2 seconds to pass --version to determine the license.
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     vxn (vxn@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Sunday, 30-Mar-2025 21:11:51 JST vxn

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki @inyanblood I see they plaster everywhere that license flags should be treated as inaccurate by default, anything but to do the right thing, huh?