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1. Embed this notice
   Alex (earcwelder@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 00:51:56 JST Alex

   This was an all-timer. A perfect rebuttal of Effective Altruism and Roko’s basilisk

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 04:46:14 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR

     @flancian @lritter @eARCwelder No. I can't believe there are folks on the fedi actually saying that. 🤦

   • Embed this notice
     In #Flancia we'll meet (flancian@social.coop)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 04:46:15 JST In #Flancia we'll meet

     in reply to

     • LR

     @lritter @eARCwelder I agree with your question and assessment; EA has/had some subfactions that are weird but overall remains a sensible and good movement IMHO

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     LR (lritter@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 04:46:16 JST LR

     in reply to

     @eARCwelder i understand the connection to roko's basilisk, and i agree with your assessment there, but what is the connection to effective altruism?

     i only just now looked it up on wikipedia; the pitch seems harmless enough, but it seems the people involved in it twisted it into something else. i found this paragraph which is perhaps the connection you allude to?

     Silver Huskey repeated this.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:22:48 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR
     • michiel

     @michiel @flancian @lritter @eARCwelder Um, no, don't try to appropriate the language of social justice as an implement of fascism.

     "A group" in the sense of people who have joined a movement/cult with fascist ideology is not the same thing as "a group" of people defined by the circumstances of their birth, the culture they grew up in, etc.

     Effective Altruism is and always has been a technofascist futurist eugenicist cult. There is nothing altrusitic about any of it.

   • Embed this notice
     michiel (michiel@social.tchncs.de)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:22:49 JST michiel

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR
     • Rich Felker

     @dalias @flancian @lritter @eARCwelder yeah, imagine not judging a group based on hot takes of their extremist fringe.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:29:07 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR
     • michiel

     @lritter @michiel @flancian @eARCwelder I'm not your encyclopedia. I'm not going to respond to demands to prove well-known fascists are fascists. I'm going to report the folks who keep trying to legitimize them here.

   • Embed this notice
     LR (lritter@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:29:08 JST LR

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • Rich Felker
     • michiel

     @dalias @michiel @flancian @eARCwelder always has been? got receipts?

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:35:58 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR

     @flancian @lritter @eARCwelder There are some good people who got roped into the cult by the evil people pushing it. They need help getting out not legitimization of the cult.

   • Embed this notice
     In #Flancia we'll meet (flancian@social.coop)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:35:59 JST In #Flancia we'll meet

     in reply to

     • LR
     • Rich Felker

     @dalias @lritter @eARCwelder this is totally me, and I think it's a reasonable position :) although I understand that people have had negative experiences with some people in the movement or adjacent, effective altruism is very diverse like any large human group and IMHO is disproportionately made up of overall good people. I think it needs to be OK to say that, happy to discuss further!

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:48:09 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR
     • michiel

     @flancian @lritter @michiel @eARCwelder We have a "no fascism" rule and promoting fascism "respectfully" does not bypass the rule.

     The Wikipedia article is not the authority on whether EA is "discredited". You can do your own research into *who the people behind it are* and *what else they believe/promote/do*. I'm not talking about rando EA adherents you might meet. I'm talking about founders, organizers, follow the money, etc.

   • Embed this notice
     In #Flancia we'll meet (flancian@social.coop)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:48:10 JST In #Flancia we'll meet

     in reply to

     • LR
     • Rich Felker
     • michiel

     @lritter @dalias @michiel @eARCwelder I've read the wikipedia article on EA, I don't think it discredits the movement at all despite what fringe people within the movement might have believed, or believe. It needs to be OK not to cancel a huge human group because of beliefs of say a 5% (to make up a number, choose one?) subset.

     Also I hope you're not proposing reporting this conversation as I think it's been very respectful? But happy to discuss if you think any part was out of line!

   • Embed this notice
     LR (lritter@mastodon.gamedev.place)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 07:48:12 JST LR

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • Rich Felker
     • michiel

     @dalias @michiel @flancian @eARCwelder ok. totally understand. i'm just a curious newb. i don't care about EA at all.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 10:07:35 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR
     • michiel

     @flancian @lritter @michiel @eARCwelder The TESCREAL paper. Also, at least William MacAskill is intimately associated with crypto & AI scam crowds. "Zero chance they are fascists" sounds like you aren't well-grounded in what fascism is...

   • Embed this notice
     In #Flancia we'll meet (flancian@social.coop)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 10:07:36 JST In #Flancia we'll meet

     in reply to

     • LR
     • Rich Felker
     • michiel

     @dalias @lritter @michiel @eARCwelder I know the work of Peter Singer, William MacAskill and Toby Ord reasonably well and I can vouch for at least the first two, in particular Peter Singer. I consider them all founders (Peter Singer's thought of course predates EA by long) and there's essentially zero chance they are fascists.

     So I understand you seem frustrated with EA but these are strong claims with no backing I'm aware of. If not Wikipedia, what sources should I search/read?

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     Vincarsi (vincarsi@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 22-Mar-2025 11:58:09 JST Vincarsi

     in reply to

     • LR

     @lritter @eARCwelder Effective Altruism is basically rebranded eugenics when you get down to brass tacks. They use a lot of flowery language about "preventing future suffering", but when you scratch the surface of how they plan to accomplish that it's just an excuse to remove the agency of people who are suffering now so they don't breed more suffering into the world.
     I'd agree the premise has been twisted, if it didn't come from a source that obviously created it as a cover for their fascist BS

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 23-Mar-2025 00:14:01 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR
     • michiel
     • PhDog

     @dogfox @michiel @flancian @lritter @eARCwelder The "movement" aspect is entirely a cult, built to launder technofascist-patriarchal ideas into a framing where they can be called "altruistic".

     If you actually want to do good, just do it. There is no value in associating with a cult that happens to be linked to the people out to end democracy and labor rights and plunge us into a neofeudal future "for the sake of survival of the species".

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     PhDog (dogfox@kpop.social)'s status on Sunday, 23-Mar-2025 00:14:02 JST PhDog

     in reply to

     • In #Flancia we'll meet
     • LR
     • Rich Felker
     • michiel

     What is there to the EA movement that's good besides the common sense idea of putting a little effort into checking your charitable efforts actually do some good? Because that isn't exactly a "movement," which EA is.

     @michiel @dalias @flancian @lritter @eARCwelder