Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 08:59:25 JST nugger
   THE "POWERPLANT" CONSTRAINTS ON A COMMUTER BIKE ARE A PEDAL CADENCE OF 60 RPM,
   A TOP OUTPUT OF 100 WATTS,
   A MINIMUM STABLE SPEED OF 4 MPH,
   A MAXIMUM SPEED PRIOR TO SIGNIFICANT AERO LOSSES OF 12 MPH.
   
   IF THAT SOUNDS VERY WIMPY THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S INTENDED FOR UNTRAINED COMMUTERS, WOMEN, CHILDREN, ELDERLY
   
   TOP OUTPUT ESPECIALLY
   ANYONE CAN PUT OUT ABOUT 100 WATT INDEFINITELY, IT'S BASICALLY FREE POWER, BUT ANY INCREASE (GOING UPHILL ETC) SHITTERS STAMINA EXPONENTIALLY
   NAVIGATING AROUND THAT, AND REGEN BRAKING -- ARE THE REAL EBIKE WINS
   
   FOR WEIGHT CONSTRAINTS WE HAVE THE "INDUSTRY STANDARD" OF ANYTHING OVER 50LB BEJNG A "TEAM LIFT ITEM"
   THESE REGULATIONS ARE MADE FOR WOMEN AND THE ELDERLY AND ARE A GOOD BALLPARK
   50LB IS OUR UPPER LIMIT WEIGHT CONSTRAINT FOR A FULLY ASSEMBLED BIKE, AND FEW BIKES ON THE MARKET EVEN APPROACH THAT
   
   SIZE CONSTRAINTS ARE ALSO WITHIN REASON
   THERE ARE GENUINELY GOOD NON-RIDE-QUALITY-RELATED REASONS TO OPTIMIZE FOR SIZE AND WEIGHT
   AKA PORTABILITY
   STAIRS, CARS, BRINGING THE BIKE INDOORS, STORING THE BIKE IN A COMICALLY SIZED FRENCH APARTMENT, ETC ETC
   
   IS IT WORTHWHILE TO OPTIMIZE FOR PORTABILITY?
   AS IN, PUSH FOR IT AS A DESIGN GOAL? FOR SOME MARKETS, YES. THAT'S WHY THE FOLDING BIKE NICHE EXISTS. BUT THAT'S A BIT TOO MUCH OF A COMPROMISE ON EVERYTHING ELSE, AND I THINK THE COZY COMMUTER IS NOT A FOLDING BIKE, AT LEAST NOT TO EXCLUSION OF OTHER QUALITIES
   
   IS IT DETRIMENTAL TO IGNORE OPTIMIZING FOR PORTABILITY?
   I DON'T THINK SO.
   ALL HUMAN POWERED VEHICLES ARE INHERENTLY HUMAN-SCALE AND MANAGEABLE
   SMALLER AND LIGHTER IS MORE CONVENIENT, SURE, BUT IT'S DIFFICULT TO MAKE A BIKE THAT WILL BE SIMULTANEOUSLY A GOOD BIKE, AND BE UNMANAGEABLE AT HUMAN SCALE IN TERMS OF PORTABILITY
   
   OTHER THINGS THAT AREN'T REALLY WORTH OPTIMIZING FOR IN THE COMMUTER DESIGN NICHE
   1. SPEED. THAT WAY LAY LYCRA CLOTHES.
   2. SUSPENSION TRAVEL AND OTHER STRICTLY MOUNTAIN BIKE CONCERNS. PEOPLE WILL COMMUTE OVER GRAVEL AND DIRT ROADS, BUT THEY WILL AVOID ROUGH MOUNTAIN TRAILS, IF THEY'RE SANE.
   
   THINGS THAT ARE WORTH OPTIMIZING FOR
   1. RIDE COMFORT
   2. ACCESSIBILITY,
   VIS A VIS HAVING AN EASY WAY TO GET ON AND OFF,
   BEING HARD TO FALL OFF OF,
   HAVING A LOW POWER REQUIREMENT TO GO PLACES, WHETHER THROUGH ASSIST OR A WIDE-LOW GEARING,
   BEING SIMPLE TO LEARN. NONE OF THAT BULLSHIT WITH WIRELESS SHIFTING WITH AN APP ON YOUR PHONE OR WHATEVER
   3. PRICE
   4. LOW MAINTENANCE. AND THAT'S A MAJOR COMPONENT OF THE PREVIOUS POINT VIS A VIS PRICE.
   
   SO IMMEDIATELY YOU'RE THINKING "OKAY, JUST HAVE A PLANETARY GEAR WITH COASTER BRAKE. EVERYTHING IS SEALED UP, LOW MAINTENANCE, SHIT EFFICIENCY DOESN'T MATTER"
   • BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:54 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @nugger @Hando Its pretty true though. Energy loss from generator to storage to motor is the problem, is it not? Direct to mechanical is a good way to go, and maybe having something to capture excess power and put it into a capacitor for occasional boost (10s of power 250 at watt?) would allow a much lighter setup. Although to your point, if power could be shaved from each pedal as a nearly unnoticeable amount and passively discharged (to the wheel motor) once full, that would be even better. I think material wise, looking at seriously reducing the weight of the bike without making everything unbalanced would be a bigger boon. Wheel weight is important with electric motors, so a fixed rear sprocket would allow for more advanced lightweight and lightweight materials (titanium or aluminum rear sprocket?).
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:55 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @Hando IDK THE "PEOPLE CAN OUTPUT 100 WATTS PEDALING WITHOUT EVER GETTING TIRED" IS MAKING ME HAVE ALL SORTS OF THOUGHTS
   • Embed this notice
     Count St. Germain (hando@pieville.net)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:56 JST Count St. Germain

     in reply to

     @nugger What if this sprag could be magnetized to stay in open position by the magnet field created from the spinning? Better yet make it spring loaded so it stays open with centrifugal force. Basically you gotta keep that thing out of the way or it will catch and jerk the pedals.

   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:56 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @Hando IT COULD HONESTLY BE SOME VARIATION ON THE "OPENING PETALS" TYPE OF CLUTCH YOU FIND IN CHAINSAWS AND SCOOTERS
     AND WHILE THE CLUTCH IS OPEN YOU'RE SPINNING THE STATOR AND SENDING POWER TO THE OTHER ELECTRIC MOTOR
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:57 JST nugger

     in reply to
     WITH A SUSPENSION POST AND FAT TIRES, THAT WILL GIVE ABOUT 4" OF SUSPENSION TRAVEL THAT WILL EAT UP GRAVEL, PAVEMENT CRACKS, AND DIRT ROAD CORRUGATIONS
     
     WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:57 JST nugger

     in reply to
     IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO HAVE A
     P R I U S
     T R A N S M I S S I O N
     IN THE FREEWHEEL
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:57 JST nugger

     in reply to
     IMAGINE
     THE FREEWHEEL INSTEAD OF A RATCHET IS A SPRAG
     AND IT ONLY LOCKS ON SYNCHRO
     SO
     UNLESS YOU'RE PEDALING A CLOSE ENOUGH SPEED, THE PEDALS ARE UNLOCKED AND YOU'RE SPINNING A ROTOR IN A STATOR, AND AN EBIKE MOTOR PUSHES FORWARD
     
     AND IT COULD BE NOT IN THE FRONT SPROCKET CRANKSET BUT SOMEWHERE IN THE DRIVETRAIN
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:58 JST nugger

     in reply to
     EITHER 26" MTB WHEELS, BECAUSE THEY'RE COMMON
     OR
     20" MINIVELO WHEELS BECAUSE ANYTHING SMALLER SUCKS DICK FOR COCK
     
     FAT TIRES FOR A WIDE THREAD AND BIG GROUND PATCH PLUS A BIT OF SUSPENSION, LESS FLATS, THE WORKS
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:58 JST nugger

     in reply to
     20" BMX WHEEL, 4" FAT TIRE AT 10 PSI, KNOBBY BUT NOT TOO KNOBBY TIRE, TUBES
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:06:59 JST nugger

     in reply to
     ALRIGHT JUST SPITBALLING
     
     ITS GOTTA BE A STEP-TROUGH FRAME
     
     RECUMBENT BUT NOT A LAY-DOWN RECUMBENT -- A CAR SEAT WHERE A REGULAR BIKE SADDLE IS
     UPRIGHT BUT RECLINED WITH A BACK
     
     FEET FORWARD, EITHER WITH A LONG ASS CHAIN TO THE REAR WHEEL THAT'S SHROUDED IN AN ENCLOSED PLASTIC CHAINGUARD, OR FORWARD PEDALING
     
     LIKE A PLANETARY GEAR HUB IN THE FRONT WHEEL AND THE PEDALS ARE COAXIAL, LIKE A BIGWHEEL TRICYCLE FOR BABIES
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:10:36 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @nugger @Hando They have CVTs for bicycles now. Fully enclosed, shift while stopped, no chain issues.
   • Embed this notice
     Count St. Germain (hando@pieville.net)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:10:44 JST Count St. Germain

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️

     @BowsacNoodle @nugger It is the power factor keeping nugger down. The efficiency rating is too low and it would eventually always drop to zero.

     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:13:22 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @Hando @nugger I suppose it would, but there are ways to mitigate loss. Weight reduction so that pedaling is less taxing. Solar is super inefficient and meme tier, but drawing a few watts passively could help offset the latent power loss (assuming this is possible). There was that solar bike trailer that generated enough to let you ride all day. At a certain point though, you're just making a less safe and slower car.
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:13:46 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @BowsacNoodle @Hando WEIGHT IS HONESTLY AN OVERBLOWN ISSUE
     THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 30LB BIKE AND A 10LB BIKE ISN'T 60% OF THE WEIGHT, BECAUSE IT'S CARRYING A 150LB RIDER EITHER WAY
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:17:31 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain

     @nugger @Hando If weight is reduced, more gizmos that have weight can be introduced. The point of bicycle weight reduction in this scenario is to allow you to pedal it and it feel closer to a normal bike. I road an e-bike (21 speed mountain bike style, folding) up a hill that is somewhat taxing on my normal road bike, and I was a sweaty mess by the end of it. The extra 30 pounds is brutal. Turn that to 10 or 0 and it will be no issue.

   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:23:10 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @BowsacNoodle @Hando I MENTIONED IN THE OP SCHIZOPOST, BUT THE ACTUAL ADVANTAGES OF EBIKES IS LOWERING THE POWER DEMAND DOWN TO THAT "FREE" 100 WATTS
     
     AND SECONDARILY THAT ALL THE POWER PUT INTO CLIMBING A HILL GETS LOST TO AIR RESISTANCE AND BRAKING WHEN GOING DOWNHILL
     PLUS THE VERY COOL BENEFIT OF NOT NEEDING TO REPLACE BRAKE PADS WHEN YOU'RE RELYING ON THE REGEN BRAKE
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:24:07 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @nugger @Hando Yes. I did try out the partial assist on the same hill and it was very nice and made it easier than riding my normal bicycle.
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:24:30 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @BowsacNoodle @Hando I BET THE ACTUAL POWER RATING AND BATTERY CAPACITY COULD BE REDUCED HANDILY TO FACILITATE 100WATT, 60 RPM PEDAL, 12 MPH CRUISING
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:38:55 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @nugger @Hando So we want a system that basically only goes when you're actively pedaling and only assists when your pedaling is too high of torque? Hall effect sensors measure magnetic field, so they could be used to tell ∆τ (torque) with variation from environment (temp affects them a lot, vibration some). Basically allow the bike to let you pedal a bit harder at the 3-5% incline but when torque goes way up (e.g. 8%) kick on the motor so you don't struggle as much charging the hill. Hall effect sensors can be super light weight and aren't too expensive but a "computer" (PCB?) has to do some calculating to decide when to kick on. Not a huge deal since it would be small. They're cheap too at under $50 most likely.
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:40:07 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @BowsacNoodle @Hando AGAIN, THESE ARE CONSTRAINTS FROM OP, BUT THAT ASSIST COULD KICK ON AT SPEEDS LOWER THAN 5MPH WITH A CHEAP CADENCE SENSOR, AND START REGEN BRAKING AT SPEEDS ABOVE 10MPH
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:40:12 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @BowsacNoodle @Hando OR YOU COULD (ALSO) DO SOMETHING GOOFY WITH A GRADE SENSOR SO IT KICKS ON UPHILL AND REGEN BRAKES DOWNHILL
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Count St. Germain (hando@pieville.net)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:40:18 JST Count St. Germain

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️

     @nugger @BowsacNoodle Wheel resistance

     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:41:19 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @BowsacNoodle @Hando COULDN'T THE TORQUE SENSOR JUST BE A DUMB SPRING IN THE PEDAL THAT DEFLECTS
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:43:30 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @nugger @Hando It could. There's a lot of ways to do it. Strain gauge would give you a torque reading directly, similar to what an electronic torque wrench has.
   • Embed this notice
     Count St. Germain (hando@pieville.net)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:44:37 JST Count St. Germain

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️

     @BowsacNoodle @nugger It would need to disengage the sprag as well otherwise the cyclist would be pedaled at the speed of the motor.

     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:46:35 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @Hando @nugger You could have it as a direct to wheel motor instead of on the chain. That won't necessarily mess with pedaling at all. Go front wheel for example and it's entirely separate from the chain assembly and only pulls when it senses you're pushing and the torque is too high.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:48:50 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @nugger @Hando Get a cheap brushless motor cordless drill and use the safety clutch in reverse so that it only engages when torque is too high. Rig it to the front wheel and you can bypass the nonsense of the chain assembly.
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:48:51 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @BowsacNoodle @Hando ACTUALLY THIS IS MAKING ME THINK OF USING THE MECHANICS OF A TORQUE WRENCH FOR THE PRIUS CLUTCH SOMEHOW
     WHICH IS A STUPID IDEA I SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:54:45 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @nugger @Hando Redneck engineering my friend. Can get a harbor freight super coupon and maybe rig up dual motors in parallel putting them inside the front forks. The extra weight will definitely be noticeable, but you can balance it out by ripping apart the batteries and putting the individual cells elsewhere on the bike. A long tube of them would be good instead of a square shaped battery brick. Could also replace them with high amperage cells and use less of them, although you need enough to get the voltage up unless you want to mess with more converters.
   • Embed this notice
     nugger@poa.st's status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:54:46 JST nugger

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Count St. Germain
     @BowsacNoodle @Hando HOLY SHIT
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:56:19 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Count St. Germain
     @Hando @nugger What about a dynamo? Aren't those really good for simple motion for power production? It's DC too I think so less power loss.
   • Embed this notice
     Count St. Germain (hando@pieville.net)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Mar-2025 09:56:20 JST Count St. Germain

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️

     @BowsacNoodle @nugger you could put a magneto on the crankshaft sprocket to produce that 100w