mekka okereke :verified:
Nazi salutes can't hurt you. Nazi policies can.
How're people more agitated by a nazi salute than by nazi policies? I don't get it.🤷🏿♂️
👨🏼"Well, now it's open fascism!"
Why is closed fascism any better? The same policies are happening.
Your assignment hasn't changed: Protect the most vulnerable.
mekka okereke :verified:
"So you think pancakes are waffles?"
Nowhere in my post did I even hint at the previous administration. I have literally thousands of posts criticizing the previous administration. You can go through each and every one of them and see if I called the previous administration nazis even once. My numerous criticisms of the previous administration are in no way unclear. I have been extremely, excruciatingly, specific.
This post is about people being concerned over a nazi salute.
I said what I said. Nazi salutes can't hear you. Nazi policies can.
🅺🅸🅼 🆂🅲🅷🆄🅻🆉
@mekkaokereke Uhmm so you think the previous government was Nazis too?
mekka okereke :verified:
Follow that thought through: intent to do what?
Intent to enact nazi policies.
But... they have already, vocally, and literally, very publicly expressed that intent to enact those policies.
In fact, they *promised* to enact those policies.
If a dog is already biting your leg and shaking its head viciously from side to side, don't worry about if it's barking or not. Yes, barking can be a sign of aggression... but that dog has already "expressed intent" to bite you. Because it's biting you right now. You don't need to panic. You don't need to despair. You just need to know what to do when a dog bites your leg. And "listen for barking!" or "these are other common signs of dog aggression!" don't really play into protecting yourself from an ongoing dog attack. Staying calm does.
Tim W RESISTS
@kimschulz @mekkaokereke it reads pretty clearly to me - closed fascism has the same policies as open fascism.
You're giving pretty hardcore reply guy energy here.
Kierkegaanks regretfully
@mekkaokereke it signals intent?
🅺🅸🅼 🆂🅲🅷🆄🅻🆉
@mekkaokereke @kimschulz So what exactly does "the same policies" refer to if not the previous administration? Clearly you're not a clear as you think in your communication.
mekka okereke :verified:
Everyone else got it except for you.
And I'm not rewriting what I wrote just for you.
If a teacher teaches a lesson, then gives a test, and all students get an A except for one student who got an F? That's very sad for that one student.
Everyone learns differently. I would agree that the way the teacher explained it might not have been clear *for that one student*. I can see how that one student might genuinely think that the best approach is for the teacher to change their whole lesson plan and teaching style, to be more clear for them as an individual.
But that's not going to happen.
mekka okereke :verified:
Before Trump was inaugurated in 2016, nazis gave lots of speeches around the country and in DC that were covered by mainstream press, where they did lots of nazi salutes.
Fox News anchors have done similar nazi salutes on stage at other points during Trump's term.
Nazis have been floating around CPAC for years.
I don't see how this is a big difference from those. Like, why is this any more undeniable?
(And no I'm not sharing those videos links. We all know what a nazi salute looks like).
Louis Ingenthron
I don't think "agitated" is the right word.
But the reason it excites people is because it's a lot harder to deny people are fascists when they wear the symbols of fascists, and we have a *lot* of fascism denial in this country.
This is the kind of thing that could maybe wake up the blase white bible-belter to the what they've wrought.
mekka okereke :verified:
Kim, the previous administration is what *you* want to talk about.
That's not what *I* want to talk about.
The only problem is, this is my timeline, and my thread.
But there's an easy solution! In Mastodon, each user has the ability to create their very own timeline, and their very own threads! That way, everyone can discuss whatever topic they want, without derailing another conversation! Brilliant!
So my suggestion: make a new post posing the questions: "Was the Biden administration nazis? Were they closed fascism?" Post that, and I will boost it! I promise! That way, everyone that wants to have that conversation can join in, over there.
🅺🅸🅼 🆂🅲🅷🆄🅻🆉
@tim @kimschulz @mekkaokereke So back to my question: was the previous administration closed fascism? That's all I am asking. Fascism is pretty well defined as a term so the unclearity of the post made me confused about what was really meant. Simple question really.
mekka okereke :verified:
One was literally on stage at the RNC, in a speech honoring Trump.
Louis Ingenthron
@mekkaokereke Because, afaik, those nazis never saluted on-stage at a Trump event.
People respond to symbology. If Trump says "deport all immigrants", people say "eh, he doesn't mean it." But if he says it while wearing a swastika armband, those folks sit up and start paying attention.
There's a reason the high-profile nazis in this country typically avoid those symbols like the plague, at least when not behind closed doors.
mekka okereke :verified:
Yes that's one. Another is that the Alt-Right was literally founded by a person that does nazi salutes and wants to ethnically cleanse the US to turn it into a "whites only ethno-state." His words. His plan to do this is through policy at first. His best friend from Duke university, now sets US immigration policy. Again.
All of this has been publicly available knowledge for the past 8 years.
I think some people are still holding out hope that the supporters of these policies would reject them if they only knew that they were ethnic cleansing policies. I... don't have that hope.
The only thing that I've observed that makes people that support these policies decide not to support these policies any more, is when they experience that these policies harm themselves too. It's selfishness, not empathy, or caring about other people, or rejection of fascism, that makes them change.
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... don't deport my family members."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... let me hire H1-Bs."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... keep funding Ukraine's military."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... don't bankrupt my agribusiness."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... I need my government job, so I hope it's not eliminated."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... I need this health insurance, so I hope they leave ACA alone."
"I hope they crush our enemies! But... California needs FEMA help, so I hope they don't take that away."
Etc.
Each group wants fascism for others, even when the fascists promise a little fascism for them too.
Louis Ingenthron
@mekkaokereke Are you referring to the Ingraham one? If so, watch again and notice how she at least has the shame to hide it and make it ambiguous. Whenever they do it in public, there's always a mask, an excuse, something to give the average person an out to say "oh that wasn't really a nazi symbol."
But Elon's was blatant and unequivocal, even coming from the chest first. It was shameless and unmasked, and that might make the difference.
mekka okereke :verified:
Honestly, if people are still waiting for US newspapers to save them? Newspapers? Then I understand that even less.🤷🏿♂️
US newspapers try to make money off the rise of fascism, gaslight people who are its targets, then instantly fold like, well, like paper when it becomes obvious that the fascism they enabled is going to win.
At no point did they offer any meaningful assistance or resistance to fascism. And at many times they were actively harmful to the group's trying to promote democracy, lying about DEI, made up crime waves, immigration, Black voters, and everything in between.
People used to get mad at me for saying all this. Now it's... much more quiet.
No one is coming to save us. We have to help ourselves.
Jürgen Hubert
@mekkaokereke I think part of this is frustration:
"How much more obvious do they need to get before you acknowledge that these guys are fucking fascists?"
But any "news organizations" which have failed to call out these fascists clearly don't want to do so.
mekka okereke :verified:
Yup...
Louis Ingenthron
@mekkaokereke FWIW, I appear to have been quite wrong about this.
I posted it where some of my right-wing family could see it, and they're mostly writing it off as a fabrication of CNN and MSNBC, ignoring their own eyes.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick a football.
Louis Ingenthron
@mekkaokereke There is undeniably a large sect of people who are exactly like you describe. This won't convince them.
The folks I think it would convince are the ones who don't really pay attention to politics other than what they hear other folks talking about around the water cooler. The ones who vote, not as an informed decision, but rather as a social function. The ones who feel left behind in life, but are too stupid or lazy to identify who exactly is leaving them behind.
juliette
@louis @mekkaokereke This is how I feel about climate disasters. I used to think “when the shit really hits the fan, it will be too late, but they will have to admit climate change is real.” And here we are, LA went up in flames, and they are saying the problem is woke firefighters.
They are choosing not to believe their own eyes and ears.
It is, however, very relevant to note down *who* is telling you not to believe your eyes and ears. Many are centrists who should be discredited forever.
T.C. Harris
One of my former colleagues is a former conservative and he posted it to FB outraged about it and all of his family and friends are jumping all over him about misinformation, misleading still images, defamation, leftist lies, etc. etc.
"I wonder how you would do if someone had a camera on you 24/7 willing to take anything out of context, hm??"
This is who they are now. Who a lot of them always were.
Paul Cantrell
@q_aurelius @louis @mekkaokereke
This sounds exactly like the kind of behavior that’s apparently typical of people who’ve been conned and are presented with evidence of the con. They double down.
There’s a scene in the life of Ponzi (the actual guy) where a crowed showed up demanding their money back, and left having given him even more money. They had enough doubt to march there, and they •still• doubled down in the end.
Keep at it. People don’t admit they’ve been conned at the first piece of contrary evidence. It takes sustained, repeated questions that cause doubt. Broken record therapy.
Paul Cantrell
Yeah, there’s definitely a sunk cost fallacy for behavior too.
Chris Adams
@inthehands @q_aurelius @louis @mekkaokereke the conservative movement has created a perverse ratchet by normalizing treating others in ways you could only begin to justify if the conspiracy theories were true. I notice this most with religious people who play “Democrats made me vote for him” games because the alternative is admitting they’ve been wrong about everything. If the cartel child trafficking isn’t true, they’ve betrayed their principles and been beastly to former friends for nothing.
AJ Sadauskas
@mekkaokereke I made a similar point on the other app. (Not Elon's. The butterfly one.)
"Gees, how will we ever learn the intent behind Elon's "unusual gesture".
"If only he did something that made it clear.
"Like financially backing a politician who signed executive orders revoking human rights for trans people, and attempted to end birthright citizenship, on that the exact same day."
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