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Soatok Dreamseeker (soatok@furry.engineer)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Jan-2025 22:49:23 JST Soatok Dreamseeker
@risottobias @dalias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman I'm preferring X-Wing in my designs, but I don't think hybrid should be required, esp in gov systens.

In conversation about 4 days ago from furry.engineer permalink
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  Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Jan-2025 22:49:22 JST Rich Felker
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  @soatok @risottobias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman Anything not hybrid is betting on unproven cryptography. And doing it on a deceptive claim that risk of real world Shor's algorithm is higher than risk of trusting new crypto that hasn't stood for decades without breaking.
  
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  Soatok Dreamseeker (soatok@furry.engineer)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Jan-2025 23:23:35 JST Soatok Dreamseeker
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  @dalias @risottobias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman What exaxtly do you mean "unproven"?
  The consensus among lattice experts and cryptanalysts is that, while there is some algebraic structure to some schemes that might be interesting targets for future attacks, their security is pretty well understood. NTRU and whatnot have been around for longer than AES. Is AES "unproven"?
  
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  Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Jan-2025 23:23:35 JST Rich Felker
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  @soatok @risottobias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman No because AES is actually used and has things of high value behind it. The PQ stuff doesn't.
  
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  Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Jan-2025 00:50:57 JST Rich Felker
  in reply to
  @soatok @risottobias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman No, it's that, short of formal proof of security which is believed impossible, the only proof I accept is that breaking it would have been worth billions but nobody has done it.
  
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  Soatok Dreamseeker (soatok@furry.engineer)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Jan-2025 00:50:58 JST Soatok Dreamseeker
  in reply to
  @dalias @risottobias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman Ah. So it's all about that sunk cost, rather than the consensus of experts. I can't help you with that, as I don't own a time machine.
  
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  jaseg (jaseg@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Jan-2025 02:22:03 JST jaseg
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  @soatok @risottobias @dalias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman
  Another point worth noting is that the way they implemented PFS in signal's ratchet, it's not like you could compromise a session by breaking a single key exchange. Instead, in a hypothetical store-now-decrypt-later attack you would have to have a (gapless!) history of all traffic in either direction between two devices since they established contact, and you'd have to crack thousands of key exchanges.
  
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  Rich Felker repeated this.
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  jaseg (jaseg@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Jan-2025 02:22:04 JST jaseg
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  @soatok @risottobias @dalias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman Maybe it's worth noting at this point that signal is currently in the process of implementing a hybrid protocol for key agreement [1].
  [1] https://signal.org/docs/specifications/pqxdh/
  In conversation about 4 days ago permalink
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  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: signal.org
    
    Signal Messenger: Speak Freely
    
    Say "hello" to a different messaging experience. An unexpected focus on privacy, combined with all of the features you expect.
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  jaseg (jaseg@chaos.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Jan-2025 02:23:52 JST jaseg
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  @soatok @risottobias @dalias @khm @ambiguous_yelp @sammi @joelanman
  Also note that all these protocol messages are never sent in the plain. They get tunneled over TLS, so on top of breaking all of signals DH-key exchanges, you'd first need to break a bunch of TLS connections too.
  
  In conversation about 4 days ago permalink

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