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   eri :floofMischief: (eri@mk.moth.zone)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 12:35:14 JST eri :floofMischief:

   apparently there are people out there purposefully throwing away their plastic stuff to replace it with an "eco friendly" alternative
   
   bitch?

   • Rich Felker repeated this.
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     eri :floofMischief: (eri@mk.moth.zone)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 12:35:17 JST eri :floofMischief:

     in reply to

     the most eco friendly zero waste option is to use the shit you already have until it breaks. and then try to fix it after it breaks.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and MortSinyx like this.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 12:38:12 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     @eri Also plastic that's sturdy and doesn't break IS the most eco friendly option. Other durable materials have similar or worse manufacturing impact. The thing that's not eco friendly is disposable/one-time-use plastic or products with planned obsolescence and lots of bulk plastic in them that won't break down when you throw away the obsolete item.

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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 12:39:25 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     @eri And even if it does break, plastic welding is easier and more practical to consumers than welding metals or woodworking repairs etc.

     MortSinyx likes this.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 13:55:29 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • LisPi

     @lispi314 @eri *Burning* and melting are not the same thing. Depending on the type of plastic and additives you might have some unpleasant or mildly harmful VOCs etc offgassing when welding with hot tool, but there's also ultrasonic welding, and in either case, the amount of energy used (= main environmental impact) is orders of magnitude lower.

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     LisPi (lispi314@udongein.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 13:55:30 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     @dalias @eri Seriously? It seems to me that plastic produces a lot more toxic fumes than metal welding, which is a lot harder to manage.
     
     Metal also tends to be rigid enough that drilling holes and strapping something through them is an option if welding isn't.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 13:58:33 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • LisPi

     @lispi314 @eri Possibly a very thin outside layer exposed to UV/elements, depending on what particular plastic you're talking about (there are so many types and lumping them all together leads to wrong conclusions).

     That's the whole thing for disposable plastic containers, not stuff made to last. There are plenty of well-enjoyed plastic toys 40+ years old that are not "brittle" but good-as-new.

     MortSinyx likes this.
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     LisPi (lispi314@udongein.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 13:58:34 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     @dalias @eri Doesn't basically all plastic end-up brittle after a few decades?
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 14:04:37 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • LisPi

     @lispi314 @eri That's not my experience with stuff well-kept. See also: Model M keyboards.

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     LisPi (lispi314@udongein.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 14:04:38 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     @dalias @eri I was thinking mostly of old computer cases & similar electronics that originally were quite rigid and sturdy but which end-up practically flaking/shattering apart after a while on the slightest stress.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 14:37:52 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • LisPi

     @lispi314 @eri AliExpress has machines as low as $140, 2-3x that for more powerful ones. It'd be dirt cheap (like 1/5 that) produced at larger scale.

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     LisPi (lispi314@udongein.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 14:37:53 JST LisPi

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     @dalias @eri I just had a look and I have to ask... are there even ultrasonic welders for plastic at halfway reasonable prices?
     
     It all seems universally more expensive than tools for metal, several times over (even in contrast with the cost of arc welding PPE added).