Adrianna Tan
I really don’t believe anyone who says they want to end or restrict the #H1B program ‘because it is indentured labor’. It just smacks of ‘for your own good we must protect you’. There are ways to do this which do not involve shutting the door and harming the people who are already here, and who rely on this.
I think you should only be allowed to opine on this after passing a test on whether you know what a I-485 and I-797 is.
You are advocating for harms to half a million people
Adrianna Tan
‘Of course I don’t mean the good immigrants’
‘I want to end the program because it is bad’
Immigration policy always has a trickle down negative impact and unless you have anything specific to offer beyond platitudes, you are going to harm people.
There are already existing tweaks to the program with Biden’s H-1B final rule. It’s not perfect, but that’s how policy works.
Legit_Spaghetti
@skinnylatte I came to the US on an H1-B. I never felt like an "indentured servant," and quite frankly that kind of language is framing the debate in a peculiarly sinister way.
Adrianna Tan
@Legit_Spaghetti it removes agency from immigrants and lets people frame this as a patriarchal ‘think of the immigrants!’ conversation without ever asking immigrants what they think.
Adrianna Tan
Elon sucks etc but the natural next step of this ‘I think H1Bs are bad and take away American jobs and wont someone think of the poor H1Bs, oh look I care so much I want to restrict ‘legal’ immigration for the poor dears’ energy is Stephen Miller is going to ride this energy and kick out everyone.
Adrianna Tan
This already happened in Covid renewals, and stoppage of new visa issuance. On top of the world falling apart, H1Bs had to move and leave with all their life’s stuff overnight. You’re advocating for more cruelty to their already fraught lives here.
This is why I’m so mad at all of you and the more you’re a nice Dem who just wants to help the more I’m going to come and ask you to explain why you’ve fallen for a hard right immigration policy while pretending you’re doing it ‘for our own good’
Chris Petrilli
@skinnylatte to me it needs to be reformed so that those leveraging the process have protections that are equivalent to citizens. And a clear path to citizenship. Today it’s structured to give overwhelming power to the employer, and that leads to consistent abuse. The solution to that is to strip the employer’s power so that some fairness is restored.
This country desperately needs much more immigration not less.
Adrianna Tan
Over the last couple of days I’ve been told by nice Dems to ‘pick my battles’ and ‘see who is the real enemy’ and they are just trying to help’ and ‘indentured labor! American jobs! Billionaires suck!’
Oh and that *I* should not fall for right wing attempts to ‘split the left’ on immigration, all the people with bad takes are just plants, the left isn’t really against legal immigration.
Nope nope nope YOU are the problem. Own your bigotry.
Adrianna Tan
@rooneel shit, I can always pretend to be a poor me immigrant who needs GOP’s support on taxes and America is so great and all of that
This on the other hand is an incoherent ideology. The ‘oh I voted for X and didn’t think my spouse would be kicked out’ equivalent of the ‘progressives’
Elmo Musk
@skinnylatte I think it's overly (and unfairly) generous of you to assume the 'indentured labor' argumenters are doing so in good faith. American left has been openly anti-immigrant (besides those they can speak on behalf of) for a while now. I see "techies go home" or "transplants are destroying Seattle" all over town where I'm at.
As shit and awful and terrible and absolutely foul as it sounds, progressives are not our friends in this. They want us out.
sanae :vbike: :vbus: (SF)
@skinnylatte like if people actually believe that they should be saying "therefore we should make it easy to switch jobs" or "therefore there should be oversight of the program that penalizes abusive corporations while protecting H1-B workers" but the fact they don't is revealing
(It's also gross given that California just voted to continue making actual forced labour legal or that like there are people who can't afford immigration lawyers having their passports taken away and forced to work)
Adrianna Tan
@sanae I saw a thing that says H1Bs should be part of unions for protections
Sure. Start with unions for Americans
Adrianna Tan
If you think it’s unfair to be called a bigot when you’re ’just trying to help’, maybe stop being a bigot
Mind Dilation
@skinnylatte Yes, the people who obtain H1-B visas are fully cognizant of the potential for and the reality of exploitation. But they've concluded it's still their best option... [me biting my hand, refraining from rant against white liberals]
Adrianna Tan
@sunscream yep. Truly dehumanizing as well because they don’t see us as knowing what we are doing.
shom 🐧📷🤿🏔️🪚✊🏽
@skinnylatte The patronizing patriarchal-benevolence bullcrap is infuriating. If your solution to H-1B issues is to scrap it to prevent exploitation, instead of reforming it to assign the visa to the person and not the company (at a minimum to start with) then your solution is closed borders. I'd rather someone just honestly state their "nativist pecking order" position, than claim to be "helping" from their uninformed moral high horse.
Adrianna Tan
@shom so far everyone has said ‘open borders’ is the solution. I’d like to see how they’re doing to implement it. I agree ideologically but it’s a dream. And in the meantime, lot of harms.
Adrianna Tan
@ellestad Trump uses H2Bs not H1Bs. Nobody has any idea what any of the programs are. Ironically Elon and Vivek have a better grasp of the specifics than most people. I disagree with their intentions and reasons. But they are not wrong on many aspects of the program.
Erik Ellestad
@skinnylatte Thanks for the "reality check" of this thread! I know from foreign borne coworkers that aspects of the H1B/outsourcing pipeline can be difficult or challenging to navigate.
Is anyone really advocating for the pipe dream of "open borders" or scrapping the current H1B program?
I mean, I do have to wonder when people like Trump use the H1B program to employ low wage hotel workers, that just seems absurd. Or if Eloon says his companies won't survive in the US without better educated workers from the H1B program, maybe there is a problem with education in this country?
I think what the right really wants is some sort of guest worker program with no path towards citizenship.
Personally, I think anyone who pays US taxes or has social security deducted from their paycheck should have a path towards citizenship.
Adrianna Tan
@ellestad There is no world in which any country (especially this one) should say no to the top 1% of the talent of the rest of the world that wants to come here for some reason. That doesn't mean American students aren't matching up. It means we should always welcome them.
H1Bs have a path to citizenship. It is the only immigrant visa other than spousal.
Erik Ellestad
@skinnylatte I've seen it reported that Trump said specifically, "I have many H1B visas on my properties".
Adrianna Tan
@ellestad H1B requires bachelors degrees.
US journalists are just as uninformed.
Adrianna Tan
@ellestad if he uses H1Bs, they are finance folks or computer folks. Maybe even architects. It’s easy to look up because H1B visa info and job titles and salaries are publicly searchable. H1Bs are high paid jobs.
Adrianna Tan
@ellestad i looked up his H1Bs. they are highly paid.
Adrianna Tan
If your problem with all of this is 'you should be allowed to whine about H1B even if you are poorly informed', instead of 'let's help immigrants', you are getting blocked
D J Capelis
@skinnylatte Democrats in this country are too often gullible as hell. It’s good to have you here and your clarity is, as always, refreshing. Happy new year and see you in this next one. :)
Martijn Faassen
@skinnylatte@hachyderm.
Person: bad thing
Adrianna: you did bad thing!
Person: defensive
Adrianna: no you did bad thing
Person: unfair, only trying to help
Adrianna: maybe stop being bad instead
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