Adrianna Tan
I’ve been confused at why people keep saying that H-1B workers are low wage workers, because that hasn’t been my experience, but the reality is people are talking about the two extremes of the program and not knowing about the other side of it.
1. Outsourcing companies take maybe 4 out of 10 H-1B visas. These cos negotiate onshore outsourcing to companies. They send lower paid workers here and churn through them. Most people think only of this scenario.
Adrianna Tan
2. The rest of the H-1B visas are largely people working tech or finance jobs at all kinds of companies. Not always big tech, but big tech are the most likely to sponsor. In my experience, they’re the only ones who don’t even ask your immigration status until they’re sure you’re the right person for the job. Then if you happen to need immigration help, they’ll provide it.
Adrianna Tan
There’s a lot of FUD about this and most people don’t understand what it means. A lot of H-1B salary info is publicly available online. The posted wages are not the max wages, they mean ‘Meta got this visa for this person with this job title and they’ll be paid at least $150K’ or whatever. It doesn’t matter if it’s 200K or 400, they have to meet the prevailing wage.
These are not the wage slaves you’re talking about. Other aspects of it are not great, but the wage part (at least in SF) isn’t.
Adrianna Tan
There is ongoing work to try to reduce the ability of outsourcing companies to get the no of visas they do. The recent H-1B rule, for example. They’re trying to make distinctions between the 2 groups. The first group do get suppressed wages, and don’t tend to go on to become permanent residents or citizens, as they’re treated so poorly.
The latter group really do tend to be exceptional technical talent.
Adrianna Tan
For many international students who want to stay on in the U.S., the H-1B is also the only program available to most people unless they’re from Canada, Australia, Singapore and Chile. Those countries have their own ‘special visas’. This is the only ‘skilled worker’ visa available for most people. There is a 1 in 4 chance of getting it, even if you get the job offer. The requirements are arduous. Candidates and employers don’t take this lightly.
Adrianna Tan
When companies plan to hire a H-1B, they have to post a document in the office. It says ‘we plan to hire this person. This is their name. This is the job title. We plan to pay them $X. Any objections, contact DOL.’
They do this with every single H-1B. Only after a period of posting, can they advance to the next step. People keep acting as if all of this is some dark surprise, but they just truly don’t understand immigration processes.
Adrianna Tan
So it doesn’t matter if you’re a Swedish software engineer or an Indian backend engineer. The H-1B is the category that most people come on.
I think many people in their heads have only Indian software engineers as H-1Bs, but it’s much more diverse than that. There are also researchers and scientists. You need a bachelor’s degree, and the jobs that hire for that require a bachelor’s degree.
Adrianna Tan
More experienced people can probably come on other visas, like O-1s and EB-1s or 2s, but restricting the H-1B also severely restricts the international talent that is already here and graduating from U.S. universities that then wants to stay on after their OPT.
Many countries have started to make it difficult for foreign students to stay on after graduating from their schools. I think doing the same here will be a big mistake.
Adrianna Tan
@venite what’s a bann?
Anna-uari
@skinnylatte so basically you have to read banns for a visa
Adrianna Tan
I know some people here who keep spreading the rumor that H-1Bs are low wage workers wont be swayed even if they see this: https://h1bapp.com/h1b-sponsors/apple-inc (you can search any company)
But then I also feel they’ll say well those foreigners shouldn’t be paid so much
So I’ll just keep saying, you all don’t know anything about immigration
Adrianna Tan
Also deeply skeptical about anyone saying they were personally pushed out so a H-1B can replace them. I know people are mad at the layoffs, but H-1Bs also get laid off, and they pretty much have to leave.
‘I was in the industry and I saw first hand how I, a white American, am discriminated against!’ just doesn’t hold up, sorry. You sound like the ‘I didn’t get a job because.. DEI!!’ people. Sorry the industry sucks now. It sucks for everyone.
Camilo
@skinnylatte exactly there’s so much worry in the tech world about competition but as far as I can tell I’ve never really been in competition with people who be h1b visas partly because I don’t go for big tech jobs but also because they’re usually uhh way more than me 😆 we weren’t in competition in the first place, these were ppl who would be great anywhere in the world.
I do know of tech jobs in Miami that would cut wages for university educated Venezuelans. I just don’t do Miami jobs.
Adrianna Tan
@lednaBM I’ve seen startups bring in people across the board at lower rates but then offer more stocks, and if it doesn’t work the staff (regardless of national origin or immigration status) move to better jobs anyway. USCIS doesn’t let you bring in too many low level people at lower rates generally
Pooka🍸Boo 👁🫣🫵
As an engineer, it has been my experience that you can pay H1B visa engineers less than a citizen. Startups rely on this, not just for the ability to keep expenses low, but diversity actually brings more imaginative and critical thinking to the brainstorming table!
Adrianna Tan
LCooley
@skinnylatte @venite
I only know this from Jane Austen novels- when I couple wanted to marry in England the intention, called the banns, was read in church on three consecutive weeks. If no one objected, after the fourth week, the marriage could take place.
Adrianna Tan
Anna-uari
@skinnylatte @IcooIey if you want to get married in the Church of England, you also still need them :) used to be a system to prevent bigamy etc.
Adrianna Tan
@TomF yeah that’s the general vibe people are expressing about this. Shows a lack of familiarity with immigration and immigrants. ‘I was laid off because of cheaper labor’
No, everyone got laid off. The cheaper labor comes from outsourcing, which may or may not be H1Bs.
Tom Forsyth
@skinnylatte Ha. I had no idea some people thought H1-Bs were "poorly paid". I'm an ex-H1-B myself, and of course met and swapped stories with others on them, and one thing none of us were, is poorly paid.
The competition for H1-Bs is extremely fierce and you need a degree and industry experience at a minimum. Plenty of brilliant folks at big tech companies have failed to get an H1-B allocation, had to be on a temporary visa, and then had to return home after a few years - it's brutal.
Adrianna Tan
@drew so many of these people here now. I read some ‘liberals’ saying they should call ICE on H1Bs for taking American jobs.
Drew Mochak
@skinnylatte One of my liberal tech friends is capital U upset Trump supported H1B’s. He said that, while he has nothing against the workers, it was messed up that the companies would “treat them like slaves” and not spend that money on American workers. I told him he was being a median Fox News boomer for this take and he got very mad at me.
Adrianna Tan
@camille yeah huge diff between a small startup and big tech.
In big tech, it’s mostly like this in the Bay Area (open to sponsorship). But startups: if funded and chugging along, tends to be less willing to sponsor because of costs. If smaller and earlier along and there is a founding member in the network, more likely to go ‘figure it out’ and this person sets the tone fo immigration for others.
Camille lives at Praxis Now
@skinnylatte
Actually, working in tech, most applications I've seen or reviewed ask you citizenship/residency status. In addition to that, hiring tech managers often assume employees with Asian surnames will require H1B. For these reasons, the startup landscape tends to be less Asian than the BIG tech cos who can afford the cost and complexity of H1B. Those cos also tend to have better/higher comp.
Adrianna Tan
@camille during covid they asked for screenshots of posts on public slack channels
Now they def still ask for office posting. Given that H1Bs are tied to specific locations and states (you have to provide an office address for inspections) they’ll ask you to post it at the coworking space or whatever.
Camille lives at Praxis Now
@skinnylatte
Hmmm, I didn't know this. What if the company is mostly or completely remote? I worked somewhere with a woman on H1B once and no one knew she was that status until she was about to be fired (which she was). Her boss stretched her time with the company a little longer to see if she could find a new job, but of course H1B status makes it a huge slog!
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