mcc
I have been too busy to do AOC this year and will be all month
So I'm thinking I'm going to do AOC 2024, *in 2025*, under the following rules:
- One challenge per week.
- I don't have to perform a challenge every week. The goal is to finish by the start of December.
- I have to do a different programming language every time.
- C, C++ and Objective-C are not eligible languages.
- If I make an honest attempt at a language and fail, I may retry in Go (but only Go) (I need to learn Go)
Cassandra Granade 🏳️⚧️
@mcc Definitely oddball ideas, but...
• Shell languages (bash, fish, nu)
• Theorem solvers (Lean)
• F# as another functional language
• Cranelift IR or CIL for others in the ASM bracket
• T-SQL...?
mcc
Bonus rules
- ASM may be used more than once as long as it targets different language families (x86_64, RISCV, ARM, WASM).
- JavaScript and TypeScript are the same language.
- Rust and Unsafe Rust may be potentially counted as two different languages.
- I may use Perl/Python to "preprocess" file inputs into arrays of numbers or strings (but no more complex parsing) in the target language
- If I make an honest attempt at a language and fail, I may retry in Go (but only Go) (I need to learn Go)
mcc
This is my list of candidate languages. ⭐ means I feel comfortable and ready to go in the language. ☆ means a language I've used but am for whatever reason not confident I could do an AOC challenge in. Totally interested in suggestions for languages I am missing from my list, opinions as to whether Scheme and Racket are the same language, etc.
Goal here is personally/professionally enriching language tourism so I can be broad minded I expect. Maybe no intentional tarpit languages this time tho.
Cassandra Granade 🏳️⚧️
@mcc Also D and Zig if those aren't too C-like.
mcc
@xgranade Bash was an intentional omission. Not for the same reason as C. I just… I really don't like it. I don't think we should do this to ourselves.
Cassandra Granade 🏳️⚧️
@mcc I'm with you on that! Just wasn't sure how out there you were looking to go, sorry.
Cassandra Granade 🏳️⚧️
@mcc Yeah, just as well, I suppose. It had a few interesting new ideas, but didn't seem like enough to justify a whole new language, perhaps?
One other idea: Scala, for typeclass goodness on the JVM.
mcc
@xgranade Oh heck yeah Zig! D seems kinda dead.
mcc
@darabos @xgranade Okay I'm sorry but I'm confused. Is Lean a soundness prover, a programming lanuage, or what?
Cassandra Granade 🏳️⚧️
@mcc @darabos It's a programming language and a theorem solver that checks proofs in that language. I'm not sure if it's technically possible to do AoC challenges in Lean, but I have had a lot of fun learning the language through the Natural Numbers Game (https://adam.math.hhu.de/#/g/leanprover-community/nng4).
Daniel Darabos
@mcc If you already know Ocaml, it would take you no time to learn Lean. I don't know Ocaml so I can't speak to their differences. But I learned some Lean this year and really like it!
Cassandra Granade 🏳️⚧️
@aeva @mcc The name (and only the name) reminds me that Janus may be interesting to check out. Completely impractical as a language, and almost entirely useless, but fascinating in that it's purely reversible and can, in principle, be run with entropy cost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_(time-reversible_computing_programming_language)
aeva
@mcc also "Janet" is a language that I've been told to have a gander at by several people who seem trustworthy so it feels worth mentioning, but I have not myself gandered "Janet" so I can't tell you why you'd want to or nto want to gander "Janet"
aeva
@mcc my suggestions for inclusion are Ada and/or SPARK, and I would like to offer the opinion that Scheme and Racket are different languages because no two Schemes are the same language, however you'd probably want to dive into the "unportable" features to keep it interesting.
Helge Heß
@lambdageek @joe @mcc JavaScript is prototype based which is pretty cool for such a popular language, it doesn’t have messaging though, which is more important in the
context.
mcc
@helge @lambdageek @joe unfortunately, I don't feel JavaScript is very good at being a prototype based language. I once wrote a prototype based language (Emily 1+2) and found it a very powerful idiom in that context— it made me want to try Self. But I've never successfully used prototypes in JavaScript for anything, except that one time I laboriously recreated a class system on top of it and used the classes. The ergonomics of js prototypes are just… weird. You see why ES6 moved away from them.
lambdageek
@joe @helge @mcc I never looked into Smalltalk deeply enough, but didn't we kind of get that, and that's how we ended up with JavaScript? Or is there more to it than just prototype-based inheritance and a message-passing metaphor to OO?
Helge Heß
@joe @mcc We also had Objective-TCL. Storing pointers as strings, you bet! https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/Objective+Tcl
Joe Groff
@helge @mcc maybe there's a happier timeline where the object-oriented hype phase was just people adding Smalltalk on top of every language, instead of whatever C++ and Java is
Joe Groff
@mcc if you're fortran-curious and objective-c is too much C for you, i have good news
mcc
Wait HECK how'd I type ALL OF THAT, including the note about "no Objective-C" (reasoning: it's too much C) but forget Smalltalk/Self
Are there any languages I should know about that are like, "Smalltalk is to X" as Erlang is to Elixir or Scheme is to Racket? Or am I just describing Self here. What's a modern Smalltalk environment look like. Is Dave Ungar's magical Self IDE still publicly available. Was it ever public or did you just have to be in that one room in Mountain View in 2004 to see it
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