Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   mcc (mcc@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Dec-2024 10:59:51 JST mcc

   Made a post on Bluesky about moderation problems on Bluesky. Got this reply. My gut response is okay, weird offtopic reply. Then I thought about it and was like, wait, I don't know enough about the referenced philosophy to know if this makes sense, it might actually be relevant. Then I thought about it some more and was like wait, is it actually the case bluesky is fundamentally anarcholibertarian while Mastodon is fundamentally anarchosyndicalist…? Instances as reification of interest groups?

   • Embed this notice
     Matthew Merkovich! (mattmerk@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Dec-2024 10:59:50 JST Matthew Merkovich!

     in reply to

     • AnarchoNinaWrites

     @mcc I would pose this question to @AnarchoNinaWrites
     I'm frankly not up to the theory end of this task. I get anarcho-syndicalism conceptually, but I never got past how having a trade-union-centric approach could ever lead to abolishing the state. I've always viewed trade unionism as a pure democracy in the workplace at whatever scale, but that results in stratification of leadership. So like I said, I'm useless on the more granular theory here, and would love to hear more myself.

   • Embed this notice
     AnarchoNinaWrites (anarchoninawrites@jorts.horse)'s status on Saturday, 14-Dec-2024 10:59:50 JST AnarchoNinaWrites

     in reply to

     • Matthew Merkovich!

     @MattMerk Unspeakably rude of you to tag me into someone's rant to ask me to teach someone I don't know something they can google on their own. I'm a busy lady and libraries are free.

     https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/rudolf-rocker-anarchosyndicalism

   • Embed this notice
     mcc (mcc@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Dec-2024 10:59:51 JST mcc

     in reply to

     Anarchist men, if you have daydreams about a cute girl going "gosh~! i sure do wish someone would explain anarchosyndicalism to me!"— THIS IS YOUR MOMENT. IT HAS COME.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 12:32:21 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • ch0ccyra1n

     @ch0ccyra1n @mcc Except their users just move. Mastodon (rather the fedi) is a mix of all kinds of models that heavily incentivizes the shit ones dying out.

   • Embed this notice
     ch0ccyra1n (ch0ccyra1n@emeraldsocial.org)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 12:32:22 JST ch0ccyra1n

     in reply to

     @mcc mastodon and the fediverse more broadly is extremely authoritarian imo. Instance admins are little dictators who get to control what information that "their" users see.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 12:35:49 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     @mcc I don't understand it in any deep level but I think it's still stuck on the legacy communist centering of labor, in an age where there's no good reason for our lives to be centered around labor. The problem is that we have means of production (and extreme abundance of production) that hardly depend on labor, and need new mechanisms that classic syndicalism doesn't provide to ensure it's operated fairly for everyone's benefit.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 12:37:43 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • ch0ccyra1n

     @ch0ccyra1n @mcc It's not a boot if they can't keep you under it. And it's not a dictator unless a single person or small group without a better governance model controls everything.

   • Embed this notice
     ch0ccyra1n (ch0ccyra1n@emeraldsocial.org)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 12:37:44 JST ch0ccyra1n

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker

     @dalias @mcc in that respect, I suppose instance admins are more like nonprofit executives, who are also still little dictators. At least users can choose who's boot they're under /s

     Rich Felker repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     ch0ccyra1n (ch0ccyra1n@emeraldsocial.org)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 12:37:45 JST ch0ccyra1n

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker

     @dalias @mcc there's no option to not have an admin that doesn't also require taking on that role yourself. I would prefer to have all interactions be handled directly between users in a peer-to-peer manner. At least then there truly is no hierarchy involved.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 12:39:43 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • ch0ccyra1n

     @ch0ccyra1n @mcc Governance does not have to be hierarchical.

   • Embed this notice
     ch0ccyra1n (ch0ccyra1n@emeraldsocial.org)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 12:39:44 JST ch0ccyra1n

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker

     @dalias @mcc I consider any form of governance to be just dictatorship lite. But I can understand why one would disagree with such an assessment. I simply do not think it is right to have any sort of hierarchy and I think it is one of the biggest flaws with both centralized and federated models of social networking.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 13:17:09 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • ch0ccyra1n

     @ch0ccyra1n @mcc Kinda real world example: a jury is empowered to make seriously decisions that are a form of governance, but they're not part of a hierarchical social relationship, and ideally chosen explicitly not to be.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Budsofstone (budsofstone@computerfairi.es)'s status on Sunday, 15-Dec-2024 13:59:29 JST Budsofstone

     in reply to

     • ch0ccyra1n
     • Rich Felker

     @ch0ccyra1n @dalias @mcc I view instance Admins more as community members taking on the roles of bouncer and bar tender at the punk bar. There is room for improvement on community feed back and inclusion on decision making. And abuse is possible more antiabuse functions should be added to further prevent it, but I'm happy there is someone to kick that first I'm a nice Nazi out. And keep the beer tap working.