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1. Embed this notice
   Linux Is Best (linux@kitty.social)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 04:38:53 JST Linux Is Best

   It took me years to accept that Debian based distros, suck as a desktop.
   
   Debian's one advantage is because they've been around forever, you can find pretty much anything in terms of software. You cannot ignore that DEB still significantly has a much wider selection of 3rd party apps.
   
   But Debian as a desktop is frustrating. I could easily argue that their packages are older, and I know someone would argue, that is what makes it more stable. But that is not true, regarding a desktop.
   
   Debian's true strength is as a server. Rock solid.
   
   But as a desktop, where you've added many different features, functions, services, and apps, you're going to run into dependency issues, even if you install no new software (keeping only the stock install). sudo apt distr-upgrade which is the basic command to update everything, is considered "taboo" within the Debian ecosystem, for a reason.
   
   I doubt many Debian groupies have stopped and asked themselves why there are so many built in commands to fix Debian, or continuous updated guides to fixing Debian. As a previous Debian users, it was only until I stopped using Debian, that I realized, I had a lot more free time on my hands.
   
   As I said, as a server, with minimalist needs, Debian keeps on ticking faithfully, but as a Desktop, you're better going with an RPM distro. If you're OK with a little bit of work, perhaps Arch. -- I'm not joking (I was surprised, myself). Debian is not the distro for desktops.
   
   #Linux #Debian #Windows #Ubuntu

   • Embed this notice
     valhalla (valhalla@social.gl-como.it)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 04:38:50 JST valhalla

     in reply to

     • Debacle

     @Linux @debacle I also routinely do apt dist-upgrades on my debian testing (and every time a new stable is out on my debian stable machines): I have installed a lot of packages, including non-free firmware.

     notably I never add 3rd party repositories, only the official debian ones; I almost never have held packages, and I can't remember running into dependency issues on stable. On testing sometimes it happens that dist-upgrade would remove some package I use, but in that case I just wait a few days before trying again and it usually has been fixed.

   • Embed this notice
     Linux Is Best (linux@kitty.social)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 04:38:51 JST Linux Is Best

     in reply to

     • Debacle

     @debacle@framapiaf.org
     
     And do you add any non-free firmware, drivers, and media codecs, or do you just stick with the stock install? How many held packages do you have, and how often do you run into dependency issues or missing packages?
     
     Have you tried running sudo apt dist-upgrade

   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 04:38:52 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     @Linux

     I'm using #Debian as my one and only desktop since mid-1990s. Right now Debian 12 #bookworm (stable) at work and Debian 13 #trixie (testing) at home. I do upgrades by "sudo apt full-upgrade" all the time ("sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" was the former variant). Works for me 🤷

   • Embed this notice
     valhalla (valhalla@social.gl-como.it)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 05:55:39 JST valhalla

     in reply to

     • Debacle

     @Linux @debacle I do have libdvd-pkg installed from contrib (on some machines), so I do have some non-free media codecs, but I don't think I've ever seen them causing issues.

     As for the reoccurring issues, I'd have a hard time calling them issues, since the only thing I have to do to see them solved is wait a few days, and they only happen on testing when packages are going through a transition.

     For sure they aren't a reason to avoid doing dist-upgrades as a regular and frequent practice.

     And they don't happen at all when using stable, or even stable + backports.

   • Embed this notice
     Linux Is Best (linux@kitty.social)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 05:55:40 JST Linux Is Best

     in reply to

     • Debacle
     • valhalla

     @valhalla@social.gl-como.it @debacle@framapiaf.org
     
     Which also meant you had no non-free media codecs, but despite this, you still experienced some of those reoccurring issues.

   • Embed this notice
     valhalla (valhalla@social.gl-como.it)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 16:59:34 JST valhalla

     in reply to

     • Debacle

     @debacle @Linux my will is not as strong :D

     Contrib packages installed on <my desktop pc>

     exult
     game-data-packager
     game-data-packager-runtime
     libdvd-pkg
     torbrowser-launcher

     to be fair the first three are there to play exult, which *is* free software, just the data files are non-free, and torbrowser-launcher is in contrib because it downloads the package from upstream, but afaik what is installed is 100% free software

     (I also have one package from non-free-firmware, but that's basically necessary these days)

   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 16:59:35 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     • valhalla

     @Linux @valhalla

     Just checked: According to `check-dfsg-status`, I have exactly one package from non-free-firmware, a wifi firmware package, and one package from contrib, anbox (I don't remember, why I have it, so I remove it now). Everything else is #Debian main. Maybe that's an extraordinary simple setup?

     I recommend Debian stable to most users, and I myself use stable at work. It's so great to have at least two years without having to deal with new software, but just get things done 🙂

   • Embed this notice
     Debacle (debacle@framapiaf.org)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 20:17:31 JST Debacle

     in reply to

     • valhalla

     @valhalla @Linux

     I wasn't aware of torbrowser-launcher.
     Will install soon!

     valhalla likes this.