Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:50:02 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

   Nothing new. #Communism kills, devastates and humiliates. When the #crimes of commies are made public, #communists try to silence the truth.

   "The #Embassy of #Ukraine in the #Hellenic #Republic expresses its strong protest regarding the violent provocative actions committed by members of the #Communist Party of #Greece during an event organized by the #Ukrainian community in the municipality of Mandra-Eidyllia to honor the memory of the victims of the #Holodomor.
   The Embassy condemns in the strongest terms the disgraceful disruption of this solemn commemoration, which is of deep historical and emotional significance to the Ukrainian people."

   https://www.facebook.com/UKRinGRC/posts/ellen%CE%B7-%CF%80%CF%81%CE%B5%CF%83%CE%B2%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AF%CE%B1%CF%82-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%AC%CE%B4%CE%B1-%CE%B5%CE%BA%CF%86%CF%81%CE%AC%CE%B6%CE%B5%CE%B9-%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD-%CE%AD%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BD%CE%B7-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%81%CF%84%CF%85%CF%81%CE%AF%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CE%B3%CE%B9/878097191170441 from https://news.liga.net/ua/politics/news/v-hretsii-napaly-na-ukraintsiv-iaki-vshanovuvaly-zhertv-holodomoru-postrazhdav-dyplomat-video

   • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:50:01 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     #communism #socialism

     https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

     https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 09:18:31 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom and what this communist propaganda does here? Dude, I was born in a country where they tried to implement this. The results were devastating. So when I say that #communismkills, I know what I am talking about.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 09:18:31 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     Not all people who lived in Marxist-Leninist countries dislike them. Some former citizens have positive feelings about these countries.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 10:07:52 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     Now you're strawmanning. You say the the Soviet Union ( or whatever country you're referring to) = Gulags, famines, etc, and then claim that anyone who liked the country must be insane when those don't represent the entirety of the country, nor are those likely the reasons people like those countries.

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 10:07:53 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom happens, however more often it is about their youth rather than the regime. And definitely no sane person misses famines, Gulag, massive repressions, iron curtain, empty shelves, propiska and other "beautiful" stuff.

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:05:45 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom "the Soviet Union = Gulags, famines, etc"

     Yes it is. Almost each of us have somebody among the relatives repressed in some way by soviet authorities.

     If anybody has a sentiment to soviet times because he was young and healthy or the soviet state make him somehow to believe that he lives in a beautiful country (this is an area for psychologists and sociologists), it does not deny the reality that soviet state was a place of terror in some its period and quite an ugliness in the rest of the periods.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:05:45 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     Just because people experienced repression in the Soviet Union doesn't invalidate others' positive experiences in the country. It's fallacious of you to accept the negative experiences people had in the Soviet Union and completely ignore or disregard people's positive experiences, as if the negative experiences outweigh the positive experiences because they fit your narrative.

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:40:26 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom It is an incorrect comparison. People could have the same or even much more positive experiences without the need to survive totalitarian terror if soviet union never existed and commies never came to power.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:40:26 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     This isn't about whether people could have had the same positive experiences if the Soviet Union had never existed. This about you either ignoring or not being aware of people who liked living in the Soviet Union. Just because you didn't like living there doesn't mean others didn't, and it doesn't mean life was bad for everyone.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:23:35 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     You pointing out that my logic can be applied to other scenarios doesn't refute my argument. My point still stands: just because you had negative experiences in the Soviet Union doesn't mean life was bad for everyone or that there weren't legitimate reasons why people liked living there. Anecdotal experiences don't speak for everyone, just you.

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:23:36 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom this logic can be applied to any regime ever existed. There are for sure people who liked living in Nazi Germany - is it a reason to spread "Mein Kampf" and propose to educate oneself? I don't think so. There are a lot of people happy in USA, European states, Israel, India etc. - does it mean we all must became alike? I don't think so. In Ukraine, the consensus is clear - no return to the soviet past, condemnation of the crimes and cruelties of the soviet regime and trying to overcome the soviet legacy in laws, way of living and style of thinking. If you want to find Ukrainians who like to rebuild USSR - feel free, but find a place far away from us all.

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:28:12 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom I think you need to educate yourself about real history of soviet crimes before writing some nonsence about "anecdotal evidences".

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:28:12 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     I said, "Anecdotal experiences don't speak for everyone, just you." That isn't nonsense. That's a fact.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 23:46:28 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     Your experiences are anecdotal by definition. All evidence based on personal experience is anecdotal. That's what "anecdotal" means. If you want to argue that your personal experiences are commonly shared by most former Soviet Union citizens, then that would no longer be anecdotal evidence, that would be statistics, and you would also have to provide statistical evidence to prove your claim.

     Also, the website that contains the book by Lenin I sent you has Russian translations.

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 23:46:30 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom you are trying to persuade somebody that my opinion or even experience of my family in USSR is anecdotal. I try to explain that such experience is overwhelmingly common in ex ussr. You try to oppose by citing some anecdotal examples of people who have warm memories about their life in the soviet times. And continue to post Lenin's propaganda writings in English translation. If it is everything you can do in your desperate tryout to explain that black is white, I think we are done here.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 00:40:13 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     Why did you send me a link to information about a court case about the 1932-33 Ukrainian famine? This isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about whether your negative experiences regarding the Soviet Union are the common concensus among other former citizens, not about the famine in Ukraine in 1932-33.

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 00:40:14 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom if you are really interested in the topic, the good place to start would be the decision of #Kyiv Court of Appeal in the criminal case upon the fact of the crime of #genocide committed in #Ukraine during the years 1932-1933: https://holodomormuseum.org.ua/en/resolution-of-the-court/

     It is translated into English and analyses quite thoroughly the "legal" base (decisions of #soviet authorities), statistical data, eyewitness' testimonies etc.

     Part of the documents are also published there, eventually translated, part can be found elsewhere, like the infamous "Decree 7-8" or "Five spikelets Act" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Spikelets

     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 01:56:55 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom We are talking about #crimes of #communists, which modern communists try to silence. About this was my initial post. The man-made #famine in #Ukraine killing millions of people was a notorious example of such crimes committed by the #soviet authorities of the #USSR (to which that part of Ukraine belonged in the time of question), constructed following the ideas written in the works of #Lenin you are so intensively distributing. And it is only one on the list. I don't know which kind of happy experience of some ex-citizens should "statistically" overwhelm this.

     In Ukraine, the totalitarian soviet regime is condemned by a law adopted by freely elected parlament, and I am not aware about any non-marginal group of citizens questioning this decision as of now. https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/317-19#Text

     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 01:56:57 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     This link you sent me isn't sufficient in proving that even Ukrainians are against the Soviet Union. How could we know what they think regarding the Soviet Union? According to the article, any support or promotion of anything relating to the Soviet Union or communism in general is illegal. People not showing opposition to this law is to be expected since if they showed any opposition to it, they'd likely face legal repercussions.

     #communism #socialism #politicalrepression

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 02:22:18 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     This doesn't sound like people freely deciding to hate communism and the Soviet Union collectively. What it is is a government forcing people to not express any liking towards the Soviet Union or communism, whether through speech, artistic expression, literature, etc, under the threat of jail, fines, etc. People must really love communism in the Ukraine if the anti-communist government of Ukraine feels it necessary to make support of it illegal.

     #communism #socialism

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 02:32:35 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     I only made two claims. 1. That it doesn't sound like the Ukrainian people are all collectively deciding to hate communism and the Soviet Union, and my evidence is the anti-communism laws in their country, which must mean that there are people there that don't hate the Soviet Union and communism. Otherwise, who do the laws exist for? 1/2

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 02:32:36 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom Please provide any direct evidences in support of your claim.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 02:32:49 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     And 2. That the people of the Ukraine must really love communism if the state has to make it illegal, which was hyperbolic and not me literally claiming that communism is very popular there, which I obviously wouldn't be able to know, and neither would you. 2/2

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 02:49:47 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     I'm glad I'm not living in your country or else I'd go to jail for sharing this amazing book with you. (You can translate the text to any language you want on the website by pressing the three dot icon in the corner and pressing "translate.")
     #communism #socialism

     https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 02:49:48 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom Even if you believe that freedom of speech in that regard was somehow impaired after 2015, there is a large time frame from 1991 till 2015 when there were no obstacles at all. However, the popularity of the communist party of Ukraine gradually faded during this period of time [ Wiki: Communist_Party_of_Ukraine ] (which, as of me, is quite consistent with a long-time process of deconstruction of soviet lifestyle and getting people more used to life in a normal non-communist world), and the mentioned law was passed after the party lost their parliament status and became completely marginalized.

     In general, I think the information I have provided till now is enough to claim that there is a strong opposition versus the communism rule and ideology in the modern Ukraine (results of scientific searches followed by legal investigations, election results, legal recognition). If you have any other opinions in that regard, try to find and provide any direct evidences in favor of your position rather than endlessly question mine.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 03:06:58 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant

     I didn't even realize that communism was illegal in Ukraine, but now that I do that makes me even more motivated to promote communism in my country since I actually have the right to do it. I'm gonna put up extra communist posters! May the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic one day be revitalized!
     Ukrainians' best national anthem: https://youtu.be/EMzxyOcFhCM

   • Embed this notice
     RevolutionaryOptimism (technoanarchist@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 03:12:57 JST RevolutionaryOptimism

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom @nanoelquant
     There's a solid (and long) breakdown of the Ukraine/Russia war that gets into this through a Marxist perspective on YouTube. Its at least worth watch for 15mins. Holler if interested I'll dig it up.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 03:16:41 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     • RevolutionaryOptimism

     @TechnoAnarchist @nanoelquant

     I'm interested!

   • Embed this notice
     RevolutionaryOptimism (technoanarchist@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 03:20:23 JST RevolutionaryOptimism

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom @nanoelquant
     https://youtu.be/g9rHjlOtH2A

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 03:20:59 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     • RevolutionaryOptimism

     @TechnoAnarchist @nanoelquant

     Thanks!

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 03:48:44 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     • 🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳

     @duckwhistle @nanoelquant

     The USSR is the reason socialism is as popular as it is now. They popularized socialism all over the world, exposed billions of people to socialism, and helped create socialist states all over Europe, so I disagree with your assertion that the USSR "did more to put people off of socialism than any capitalist government," which is not at all true.

     I can't speak about "corruption" or "subordination to a colonial power" because I'm not well-informed on that.

   • Embed this notice
     🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳 (duckwhistle@mastodon.org.uk)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 03:48:45 JST 🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom @nanoelquant
     To be fair to Ukrain the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was both corrupt and subordinate to a colonial power.
     I maintain that the USSR did more to put people off of socialism than any capitalist government.

   • Embed this notice
     𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 (radical_egocom@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 04:14:42 JST 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     in reply to

     @nanoelquant
     I'm bored now. You haven't convinced anyone of anything. I'm going to keep being a communist and hating the Ukrainian government, and there's nothing you can do about it. May the Ukrainian government cease to exist and be replaced by a proper socialist government once more, no matter how many dumb anti-communist laws they make to try to prevent it from happening.

   • Embed this notice
     Gold gab ich für Eisen (nanoelquant@c.im)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 04:14:43 JST Gold gab ich für Eisen

     in reply to

     • 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

     @Radical_EgoCom Kind reminder that promoting any opinion against communism was illegal in USSR through its entire existence but a few last months (punishment up to execution inclusively). And now a commie complaints about "political repressions". Funny.

     "Ukrainians' best national anthem"
     You are not Ukrainian and it is not your decision what is the best anthem or how shall they select their future.

     "May the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic one day be revitalized!"
     Mind your own country, Ukrainians will decide for themselves.