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1. Embed this notice
   Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:37:18 JST Luci for Chai Tea

   what changes to existing software and what new software needs to be created to enable sqlite files to fully replace CSV as a database exchange format

   • GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:39:12 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     like, what if nearly all text editors were able to open sqlite files and present them in a similar way as a csv file; as though it was just another line ending format akin to lf vs cr vs crlf

     GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:40:23 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     what if OSs integrated in file browsers opening an sqlite db like a folder and presenting tables as “files” ?

     GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:41:42 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     what if you pointed your browser at an sqlitedb and get an instance of datasette automatically instantiated on it

   • Embed this notice
     cathos (cathos@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:43:36 JST cathos

     in reply to

     @zens I know that they aren't structured anything like a csv file, but... last time I asked a similar question, people just stared at me like I was crazy. Like sql and most other database files are an inherently not-portable format or something. but really, they should be. Sure, they may not be flat, they may have pivots and relations and rules. But... they still just contain columns of values in fields.

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:45:46 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • cathos

     @cathos text files didn’t start out as inherently portable either; getting utf going and getting all text editors to support that along with different line ending formats took decades.

     and CSV has never been a very good interchange format. It’s not very well standardised and is the source of so many very serious security bugs in excel

   • Embed this notice
     mcc (mcc@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:47:51 JST mcc

     in reply to

     @zens I would dearly like to know more about the NewtonOS "soup".

     GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:47:51 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @mcc oh, I wrote a thread about them

     https://mastodon.social/@zensaiyuki/102638750461084034

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 10:53:29 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • cathos

     @cathos not to mention csv inherits all the problems of text files incompatibility

   • Embed this notice
     अनीश (aynish@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:26:22 JST अनीश

     in reply to

     @zens a thousand times yes!! i cant stop thinking about this either

     i want them to be able to edit specific cells as text files too, i think? 🤔

     sqlite needs to be text editable!!!

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:29:18 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • अनीश

     @aynish “i need to convert this schema to a different one so it can work with this other software”

     view tables

   • Embed this notice
     Froward Jason (jasontrue@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:30:43 JST Froward Jason

     in reply to

     @zens Integration with Excel would probably do it.

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:30:43 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • Froward Jason

     @JasonTrue whoa i remember you from birdsite i think we were mutuals

   • Embed this notice
     Jay Stephens (jaystephens@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:34:46 JST Jay Stephens

     in reply to

     • Froward Jason

     @zens @JasonTrue Jason was in the same emigration wave as me from the bad place. Some came before, some came after, but it was easier to find people who plunged around the same time.

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:34:46 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • Froward Jason
     • Jay Stephens

     @jaystephens @JasonTrue i went way earlier as the site became inhospitable to trans people many years before it changed hands

   • Embed this notice
     Froward Jason (jasontrue@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:41:51 JST Froward Jason

     in reply to

     • Jay Stephens

     @zens @jaystephens I noncomittally joined Mastodon in 2017 but it was a bit rough going back then (mostly the performance, but community was also lacking); the UI was pretty similar, for better or worse. So I sort of optimistically played around in the early Melon days. I'm now everywhere a lot less, except maybe Instagram, because I'm 99% focused on my new shop in Mizonokuchi.

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:41:51 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • Froward Jason
     • Jay Stephens

     @JasonTrue @jaystephens 2017 is about when I joined too

   • Embed this notice
     अनीश (aynish@merveilles.town)'s status on Monday, 11-Nov-2024 11:50:02 JST अनीश

     in reply to

     @zens what if nested folders each row is a file? something like table/primarykey.row would be awesome too! might be a bit more difficult to work with in some large tables tho

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2024 15:57:10 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • Local Agency

     @laprice it’s neat but what does it have to do with csv? is csv in arrow format?

   • Embed this notice
     Local Agency (laprice@beige.party)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2024 15:57:11 JST Local Agency

     in reply to

     @zens

     What would it take to make every SQLite table a valid Arrow format serialization of itself?

     https://arrow.apache.org/

     Because that's an 80/20 solution.

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2024 16:03:20 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • Local Agency

     @laprice this is sounding more like a change of topic than an answer to the question

   • Embed this notice
     Local Agency (laprice@beige.party)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2024 16:03:21 JST Local Agency

     in reply to

     @zens csv is a serialization of a list.

     You can write the _contents_ of an arrow memory file into a csv, and you can load a csv into an Arrow data structure.

     And it ties into an existing ecosystem of tools to visualize and manipulate data.

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2024 16:29:04 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • Local Agency

     @laprice sqlite is the standard format tho. it sounds like you are just promoting your favourite competing idea.

   • Embed this notice
     Local Agency (laprice@beige.party)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2024 16:29:06 JST Local Agency

     in reply to

     @zens all UI programs will be acting from an in-memory representation of the sqlite file you point them at.
     Using a standard format gives you access to quite a few tools that work with that paradigm.

     I seek merely to expand your horizon of the possible.

   • Embed this notice
     Luci for Chai Tea (zens@merveilles.town)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2024 16:32:55 JST Luci for Chai Tea

     in reply to

     • Local Agency

     @laprice ah okay. so a change of topic then

   • Embed this notice
     Local Agency (laprice@beige.party)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Nov-2024 16:32:56 JST Local Agency

     in reply to

     @zens I was trying to put you in touch with a community of practice that has spent a lot of time and effort dealing with the problem of portable formats.

     But OK, see ya.