Iivana Lemmetyinen
EU should now:
1) Build Eurodefence ASAP. Transition to war economy to support Ukraine so that it can win.
2) Deepen EU integration, abandon neoliberal paradigm, focus on social cohesion and resilience.
3) Cut dependencies to US. Can't be trusted anymore, should be written off as hostile power.
Charlie Stross
@alemppu @quixoticgeek And on a related note the UK's Kier Starmer needs to abandon the conservative "red lines" on Brexit and move to rejoin the EU free trade area and customs union as a matter of urgency, and rebuild ties to the EU. For *exactly* the same reasons.
she hacked you
@alemppu And while you are building out a defense against people with weapons
The ecosystem will collapse around you
I think nationalism is a bad idea in the face of not just a globalized world, but in a world on the brink of global ecosystem collapse its incomprehensible
she hacked you
@alemppu So what is your plan to resolve the conflict? A push to Moscow?
I think you might be overestimating the resilience of the ecosystem, the feedback loops are falling apart, and its becoming unpredictable
So while that is happening, we fight a global war against Russia? And possibly China, and Iran?
What is the objective? Or win condition?
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@ekis The collapses of ecosystems are already going on, and that is part of 2) on focus on resilience.
That collapse is not a result from building defence, but we need to do that because even if we can salvage enough ecosystems to be able to live sustainably, it won't help if there is a genocidal fascist empire raining bombs on us.
she hacked you
@alemppu Sorry, its not when, because unfortunately, the ecosystem is collapsing now
I hope you can see that me framing your proposal within the context of the reality we live in; does not imply I support Russia, they committed many war crimes. I don't take sides in war, its not a sport
In essence this discussion is about priorities, no?
I'm interested in knowing: Your proposal is implemented, and it works, you defeat the fascists, but then we all die
Would you still implement your plan?
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
The hammer and sickle symbol is not "a symbol of totalitarian red fascism and oppression" just because you say so, and neither is Marxism-Leninism fascism just because you say so. The hammer and sickle symbol has its own meaning that isn't related to fascism, and a quick Google search will show the difference between Marxism-Leninism and fascism. If you're going to hate Marxism-Leninism, then at least do it without strawmaning it.
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@cwtshycwtsh No, that would just leave the field for genocidal imperial fascists like Putin.
You should really not be doing the work of imperialist fascists for them.
Anyway, hammer and sickle is a symbol of totalitarian red fascism and oppression which means that every one flirting with Marxism-Leninism shall be treated as any other fascists and fought against as enemies of freedom and humanity.
cwtshycwtsh
@alemppu The only thing EU should do is to die faster. 🔥🇪🇺🔥
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
How was Marxism-Leninism a catastrophe?
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@cwtshycwtsh You just proved my point.
It is you here who is advocating policies that would only benefit imperialist genocidal fascism of Putin. You're siding with fascism.
You also side with the authoritarian form of socialism that was a catastrophe and was correctly labeled as red fascism by anti-authoritarian socialists.
This is why you have absolutely nothing positive to give to humanity and should be treated as enemy like any other fascists and people who advocate for policies of fascism.
Fascism is gaining ground, because we have also the red fascists that are advancing it.
I explicitly called for the abandonment of neoliberalism, because what we need is anti-authoritarian democratic socialism combined with progressive social liberalism to ensure our survival.
We are in a serious situation, there's a lot of stuff to do, and you are on the wrong side, which is why people like you sporting symbols of terror and oppression need to be wholly canceled, excluded from all events and made sure that your form of fascism will not be tolerated either.
cwtshycwtsh
@alemppu Using all anti-communist garbage in one toot? Boring, but a prime example of how #fascism is given a fertile ground to grow on.
See, that's why the actual fascists are gaining power. When #imperialism and #capitalism are threatened you libs side with them always and attack the left in a perfect harmony.
There is no freedom without the freedom of the proletariat. That freedom is what you oppose here. So, you're enemies of the proletariat just as much as fascists are.
Libs ❤️ Fascists
she hacked you
@alemppu How exactly is bringing up reality, or the context which is apart of the system you are talking about, totally irrelevant?
Was this a proposal you think should be implemented at the level of the EU?
Or did I interrupt a minute of hate? And you post things, not to have people talking about them? Or I have to talk in a specific way, walk on egg shells, because you cant face reality? Seriously? Grow up
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@ekis Don't put words on my mouth and don't act like some idiot if you ain't one.
Russia must be driven out of the sovereign territory of Ukraine, that is the win condition, and that is doable by European productive power if there is will.
Russia needs to pay full reparations to Ukraine for any sanctions to be lifted.
I am not overestimating any ecosystem but fail to see wtf is your point here, because ecosystem unpredictability do not remove to need to deal with this genocidal fascist empire doing war of destruction in our neighborhood.
Last time I checked China and Iran did not have territorial ambitions and wars of genocidal conquest in Europe, and I fail to see why you are bringing up these totally irrelevant points, wasting everyone's time.
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
To answer your question, I don't have any family who lived in the Soviet Union. You're still mislabeling Marxism-Leninism as fascism when the two ideologies are not the same, which was my original objection.
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@Radical_EgoCom Hammer and sickle was created as a symbol for the Soviet Union which was a totalitarian hellhole of a regime, and thus hammer and sickle is a symbol of totalitarian red fascism and oppression.
Marxism-Leninism is red fascism and was labeled as such by non-authoritarian socialists of the time, and red fascism is very good descriptor of what Marxism-Leninism is about.
This is not about google searches but a history of political ideologies. Red fascism has close to hundred years of history as a concept and it is descriptive and proper to use.
If you don't like it, it's your problem, but considering how you are sporting the symbols of red fascism, you are very much a problem yourself.
she hacked you
@alemppu You are melting down over some relatively simple questions; is there something deeper to this that you are having trouble communicating?
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@ekis You were the one putting words to my mouth and derailing discussion with irrelevant stuff.
Yes, collective defence should be implemented at the level of EU, with contingency plans for Baltic and Nordic unions if needed.
I have currently quite low patience of folks that write irrelevant stuff or come to derail discussions, especially when they put words on my mouth or claim I can't face reality, when the whole point is very much connected to the changing realities in the ground.
If you can't take discussion where people talk directly and call spade a spade, it is you who should grow up and not start whining after trying to derail the discussion with totally irrelevant stuff.
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
Can anyone else explain to @alemppu why Marxism-Leninism isn't fascism? Because I'm not wasting my time on this?
Also, I'm pretty sure hoping all Marxist-Leninist get "some painful cancer" counts as inciting violence, which is against the rules.
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@Radical_EgoCom Of course there are many varieties of fascism but as written by Otto Rühle, similarities are enough that it can be called red fascism.
3/4 of my grandparents lost their home cities and villages for good and were never able to return home, because of a war of invasion and annexation started by Soviet Union, that 1/4 of my grandparents lost her father to Stalin's purges. He grew up in a dirt poor background, believed the bullshit and became an ardent communist, went to Soviet Karelia to look for working man's parasite only to end up being shot in the purges.
Folks cheering up that tyrannical and oppressive terror regime are no better than folks supporting Nazi Germany and to be honest, all I hope for them is some painful cancer.
she hacked you
@alemppu The cascading collapse of the ecosystem on the battle space? Totally irrelevant, lol, nope also doesn't work.
You don't make sense coming at this from any angle
she hacked you
@alemppu The cascading collapse of the ecosystem on the battle space? Well, no, thats obviously not irrelevant
Oh, so this is about you avoiding my basic questions because you were very uncomfortable with typing and thinking about the answer, because you are an intellectual coward?
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
You said that you hope that I get cancer and die. I'm not listening to anything else you have to say.
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@Radical_EgoCom I already linked to you the text that argues ML as being form of fascism. You may disagree but that is a valid position that has a century of history in socialist discourse.
I just hoped bad luck to happen to leninists, as I do to all fascists.
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
Reported.
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@Radical_EgoCom I said that I hope it for folks "cheering up that tyrannical and oppressive terror regime" and you announced that you are these people, so yes, it is not really a loss that you won't listen to anything, because by being a supporter of fascist ideology of terror and oppression, I really don't have much need to interact with you and all I wish for you is bad luck and painful diseases and I won't miss you when you're gone.
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
Shut up. Your death threat was reported.
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@Radical_EgoCom Lol, you support fascism and regimes of terror and tyranny and start whining and reporting when someone wishes you bad luck in return.
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
Do you have any more threats for me, just to make it easier to get your account deleted or at least banned from mastodon.social? I would really appreciate it.
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@Radical_EgoCom Death threat? Lol.
You're the one supporting death squads and mass slaughter in the name of your fascist ideology. It is not a "death threat" to wish bad luck to you.
What a loser you are.
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
Have fun losing your account.
Iivana Lemmetyinen
@Radical_EgoCom You're the one making threats, which is no surprising, because you are the supporter of fascism and regimes of tyranny and oppression, and act like one.
Now all you have left is crying for the authority to come purge folks who call spade a spade.
How brave of you, lol.
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