dansup
w.r.t the Social Web Foundation, I'm glad we have some formal organization to help steward the protocol
See, it's easy to get caught up on Meta's participation while forgetting the impact just a few people made on the social network landscape
Meta approached the fediverse in the proper way
They didn't acquire Mastodon
Instead they worked with fedi projects big and small regarding interop
Meta isn't the enemy, fragmentation and lack of safety tools are
We can, and are, building the future ❤️
dansup
ActivityPub is a protocol.
You can't police who can or cannot participate
Instead, we need to build services and tools to ensure we can provide moderation and safety tools accordingly
You might hate Meta, but you have to admit their presence here will likely lead to improvements in privacy and safety across implementations either directly or indirectly
The fediverse is for everyone, but at the same time, you don't have to expect the status quo
We can do better, so keep that feedback coming!
Andrea Grandi 🦕
@dansup are we talking about the same Meta who manages Instagram, to which I *daily report: harassment, doxing, offences, violent posts, unsafe food challenges etc... and which regularly reply with "We didn't remove the post you reported because it doesn't violate our rules". Are we really talking about the same company? They can definitely do better, yes. I don't care if they join Activity Pub, but let's not take them as a moderation example, please.
dansup
@andreagrandi Do you think it's fair to compare a platform with billions of users to the fediverse with less than 20 million?
I'm sure any fediverse platform would run into several issues at that level of scale, but guess what, Instagram isn't federated, Threads is.
But back to the topic, I have yet to see Meta/Threads handle a fediverse moderation issue improperly, if you have, please send it my way.
No point in discussing non-fedi entities, like DNS, should .com be cancelled due to its biz?
Andrea Grandi 🦕
@dansup I'm not comparing "apples" with "trees", I'm just saying that I do not trust nor like how Meta handle moderation.
I'm not even talking about proactive moderation (catching certain content before I see it) but the fact that even when you point them to something specific, they state that episodes of food challenges or clear doxing and offences do not violate their policy.
I've seen fediverse instances with almost zero resources to handle this content correctly.
Andrea Grandi 🦕
@dansup if Meta is "too big" to handle moderation, maybe they should rethink the whole thing.
About your last point, I genuinely do not understand it (I may be missing some context or knowledge). Happy to answer if you can elaborate it a bit more. Thanks
dansup
@andrewt @andreagrandi That's a great point, and when it comes down to it, the progress I can make is to write better safety and moderation tools into Pixelfed and gather feedback from the community on how to improve them.
I can't do anything about accounts on Threads or other platforms, but what I can do is give our users better safety guards and tools to improve their experience
Andrew
@dansup @andreagrandi I think it's fair, yes. People keep saying stuff like this as if these platforms are just uwu smol bean fedi admins who were trying to run chill little communities when suddenly billions of users signed up overnight and now they're doing their best to moderate it all but really struggling to find the time what with work and childcare. They're not, they're groups of grown adults who sat around a conference table one day and deliberately chose to allow libsoftiktok to stay on their platforms because they'd make very slightly more money that way and that's more important to them than keeping vulnerable people safe. If your goals for fedi are anything more noble than "make network big" then surely Meta are almost by definition your enemy?
Andrea Grandi 🦕
@dansup @andrewt and I think you (Dan) are doing a lot on this subject. If people at Meta had even 1/10 of your concerns and care, even their platform would be much better.
To be clear, I'm not against federation with them, but I strongly think they have a lot to learn from the fediverse about moderation, not the other way around.
chomwitt
@dansup Meta. The benovelant multinational . That's a new one.
... mmm. not . wait a minute..
That has an old vibe. Microsoft vs Linux kind of. And after years of 'fights' finally the consensus has fermented in the inclusive sponsor-hunters friendly internet :
'U may hate MS but look and admire their presense and tech merits. And as for the other side .. ha RMS the pedofile!!!'
infinite love ⴳ
> I'm glad we have some formal organization to help steward the protocol
isn't this in theory the w3c and socialcg? swf doesn't steward the protocol.
Ben Royce 🇺🇸🇺🇦 Don't Boo: Vote
dan i love you and all that you do
but #meta absolutely is the enemy
Aral Balkan
@dansup Are you serious, Dan? Is this satire?
How did Meta/Facebook become a trillion-dollar corporation? By violating your privacy en masse.
https://ar.al/2022/02/07/everyone-hates-facebook-but-this-is-more-than-just-about-facebook/
What SWF is doing is giving Facebook legitimacy; enabling it to launder its reputation using *your* legitimacy.
Let me put it plainly: in Mark’s eyes PixelFed—however small—is a competitor and a potential future threat. He’s not going to help you hurt him. He will, however, embrace, extend and extinguish you.
Aral Balkan
@dansup To illustrate the second point:
Marsup
@aral @dansup I feel like this is what happened with XMPP when Google chose to shutdown its support in Google Chat (or whatever it was called at the time), many people used their server out of convenience because self-hosting was far less common (still isn't), and then XMPP population dropped massively because of Google's decision. The protocol never quite recovered from that IMHO.
Aral Balkan
dansup
@gabek I said directly, or in-directly, as in, their presence has lead to developments in domain blocking in Pixelfed for example.
Hate them or love them, they are here.
What's crazy is the expectation that only people or organizations you approve of can participate.
I don't like Meta, but I'd rather work together for the sake of our users, than just bury my head in the sand.
Gabe Kangas
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