Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   nilesh (nilesh@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 03:24:47 JST nilesh

   Feels more and more that all the so-called friends of #foss have fallen:

   #Google , #Mozilla , #Canonical , #Microsoft , #GitHub , #Mastodon , #RedHat ... the list goes on.

   Who is really left? #Linux #Debian #postgresql ?

   • Embed this notice
     nilesh (nilesh@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 03:24:45 JST nilesh

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance

     @darth They've been holding #Fediverse back by not implementing interoperability standards. Been seeing too many instances of it. They come across as another wannabe-twitter kind of organization.

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 03:24:45 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance

     @nilesh @darth facts, and I worry hard that it's too late to stop it.

     They don't respect AP or any other open standard they "seemingly" adopt.

     See the latest "Opengraph" but not really Fediverse creator tag.

     The most worrying concern for me is their refusal to add certain features because they just don't have to add anything they don't want, they already control the way 75% of users interact with Fedi. Like moderation tools, quote posts, and limiting replies.

   • Embed this notice
     Linux Renaissance (darth@silversword.online)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 03:24:46 JST Linux Renaissance

     in reply to

     @nilesh what did Mastodon do?

     BeAware repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 04:34:57 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance

     @darth @nilesh well, to understand what we're saying, you have to understand a bit about AP.

     AP is a standard made by the W3C group and has many different ways of doing things specifically for the goal of interoperability.

     One of those being content types.

     AP supports *several* different content types like "Articles", "Notes", "Audio", "Video", etc.

     However, Mastodon only natively supports Notes and will convert *some* other content types to notes to make them easier to interact with, but they could have just supported those content types out of the gate if they wanted to.

     That's why Lemmy and Mbin posts don't cross over well to Mastodon, for example.

     They've done the same thing with the new Fediverse creator tag.

     OpenGraph has a very specific way to do tags.

     Mastodon does it their own way because they didn't want to have to answer to someone else. (OpenGraph)

     They're very uncooperative.

   • Embed this notice
     nilesh (nilesh@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 04:34:58 JST nilesh

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance
     • BeAware

     @darth @BeAware AP = ActivityPub protocol which was standardized by W3C and powers all fediverse apps interoperating with each other.

   • Embed this notice
     Linux Renaissance (darth@silversword.online)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 04:34:58 JST Linux Renaissance

     in reply to

     • BeAware

     @nilesh @BeAware so what you are saying is that Mastodon development is not keeping-up? Like Internet Explorer?

   • Embed this notice
     Linux Renaissance (darth@silversword.online)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 04:34:59 JST Linux Renaissance

     in reply to

     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nilesh Yevgeniy convinced me that we are better off without the quote post thing, so I am in his camp now. I was not before. But I am kinda interested in these other things and why they matter. Why would anyone support AP (that's the bluesky one, right?) and why would BlueSky not simply start supporting ActivityPub instead?

     EDIT: I mixed up AT an AP. I have no idea what AP is.

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 04:55:23 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance

     @darth @nilesh just make sure you always discuss Fediverse in a way that doesn't make it seem like Mastodon is the only thing here.

     Unless you specifically are referring to Mastodon, it's always Fediverse.

   • Embed this notice
     Linux Renaissance (darth@silversword.online)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 04:55:24 JST Linux Renaissance

     in reply to

     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nilesh I get it now. I am unsure what can I do to help fix that. I am not trolling, but I usually approach problems in a way to see if I can be helpful in any way.

   • Embed this notice
     Linux Renaissance (darth@silversword.online)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 05:05:37 JST Linux Renaissance

     in reply to

     • BeAware

     @BeAware @nilesh well that's kinda obvious, isn't it? I am on a Mastodon instance but we are not on Mastodon social media :gura_kekw:

     But I get what you are saying. Many newcomers don't quite understand the federation concept at all, not to mention various software behind instances.

     What I think would help Fediverse a little bit is to persuade publications to remove the "share to Mastodon" button from their articles and replace it with Fedi share button if the API is the same on all?

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 05:08:19 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance

     @darth @nilesh you'd be surprised how many non-new people still refer to Fediverse as "Mastodon".

     Saw a conversation the other day where 2 "well known" people said that the only people complaining about this are "Linux nerds". When I said not really, they sent me the "ackshually" meme like a child.

   • Embed this notice
     BeAware (beaware@social.beaware.live)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 05:21:58 JST BeAware

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance
     • Exerra

     @exerra @darth @nilesh but the formatting of the tag doesn't match, either way. It's fine that it's different, but make it known that it's different and don't claim to be something it's not, that'd be nice.🤷♂️

   • Embed this notice
     Exerra (exerra@daedric.world)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 05:22:00 JST Exerra

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance
     • BeAware

     @BeAware@social.beaware.live @darth@silversword.online @nilesh@fosstodon.org The creator tag thing is a bit more complicated than that.
     
     First of all we need to understand that OpenGraph isn't an open W3C standard. It was made by Facebook so URLs posted on Facebook can look prettier and have more info. It later went on to just become the de facto standard as, well, why reinvent the wheel.
     
     Now with that explained, let's look at the actual tags. There is a profile:username tag in the OpenGraph docs, but it isn't used... at all... and it's uncertain why it exists, if there is already an expectation on what it should be and for what platforms the username would be given. Given it's a Facebook project, it might be meant for Facebook usernames, but, who knows, even they don't mention it.
     
     So, instead of potentially breaking preexisting functionality and "taking over" a tag, they made a new one with the fediverse prefix. Seems like the safest option IMO, especially since with the fediverse prefix everyone (and every piece of code that looks for it) knows, without a doubt, that it is meant to be a fediverse username.

   • Embed this notice
     Exerra (exerra@daedric.world)'s status on Wednesday, 18-Sep-2024 05:40:49 JST Exerra

     in reply to

     • Linux Renaissance
     • BeAware

     @BeAware@social.beaware.live @darth@silversword.online @nilesh@fosstodon.org Part of making standards and stuff like that is making sure that whatever you end up doing doesn't break preexisting expectations and code. That is why a bunch of standards are so messy - they can't disrupt existing behaviour, only add on to it.
     
     The profile:username tag is complicated in this regard because (1) you can't guarantee that you won't break any existing expectations & code, as well as (2) it's very ambiguous.
     
     Every other OpenGraph tag has a clear usecase. The username tag on the other hand does not. If you are making something that uses it how can you tell what platform that username is meant to point to? Is it Facebook (most likely the idea when making it)? Twitter? Reddit? The same random blog/news site it comes from?
     
     And your idea about formatting - how can you guarantee that the username is a fediverse username and not, for example, a defederated chat apps username (or even a fediverse clone that doesn't interoperate with the fediverse!)). You just can't, all you can do is guess.
     
     Making a whole new tag with a very clear usecase is a much better solution than taking over a very ambiguous tag which may or may not break preexisting expectations and code.