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   anna (navi@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:25:11 JST anna
   can we port every software to meson pretty please
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:25:09 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @navi Uuuh yeah *except* the ones meson depends on. (I know there's muon but then you'd have to hope for good compatibility with meson's dependencies… and I don't think I have that hope)
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:26:36 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @navi No, port to GNU autotools.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:34:04 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @navi Yeah that said 1:1 compatibility I'm not entirely sure, specially for complex buildsystems (like imagine if gcc would move to meson).
     (glibc is already done for in that area btw, hard-depends on python, so bootstraps are done with musl)
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     anna (navi@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:34:06 JST anna

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan i'm porting hiredict to meson and muon at the same time, and so far everything seems to be supported up to meson 0.61.0 (which is meson's lts with support to python 3.6 i think)
     
     and i barely see projects going past 0.61.0 for now (and most still use 0.58), so i think i hope for the compat
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:41:39 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     @navi Meanwhile I think it's pretty important we move on from autohell in core projects.
     Specially since Jia Tan just proved how feasible it is to exploit the ./configure blob.

     feld likes this.
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     anna (navi@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:41:41 JST anna

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan to be honest i didn't think of core projects like gcc
     
     that said tho, the more projects like that adopt meson, the most interest in improving muon there would be, imo
     
     still, i do agree it's not really the thing to do for now
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     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:44:37 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @navi Killing autotools would be delightful
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     feld (feld@friedcheese.us)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:49:43 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • :segasaturn:
     @takao @lanodan @navi because it was impossible to support different unixes otherwise
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     :segasaturn: (takao@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:49:44 JST :segasaturn:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • feld
     @feld @lanodan @navi why did we even start using this bullshit? well written makefiles and a bloody readme are enough for compilation.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:50:40 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     @navi In theory yeah you don't need autoconf/automake/… installed, but that's pretty much from the same theory where binary executables "just work".

     In practice you frequently need to patch, and even just rebuilding a somewhat similar ./configure blob is a disaster.

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     anna (navi@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:50:42 JST anna

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan ./configure is shipped with the tarball so you don't need the build system in your machine... except you still need make so...
     
     shipping an auto-generated script that most people glance over is not the best idea
     
     tho our other options are, raw make which not great for big things, cmake which, ew, and meson/muon -- out of those it'd either go with make or muon for core infra
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     Angry Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:51:26 JST Angry Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • :segasaturn:
     • feld
     @feld @lanodan @takao @navi I forget which software project it was but the main author had a huge anti-autotools rant that was passed around for years and I looked up his project and it uses autotools now.
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     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:52:32 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @navi >shipping an auto-generated script that most people glance over is not the best idea
     Just add a bootstrap.sh script that autogenerates everything from the configure.ac file then.
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     :segasaturn: (takao@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:57:24 JST :segasaturn:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Angry Sun
     • feld
     @sun @feld @lanodan @navi Joerg Schilling had (rightfully) a hateboner for it until his death, it was fairly amusing. Then again, he would also have his makefiles vomit walls of text shitting on the user and introduce timeouts because you weren't using his variant of make.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and Angry Sun like this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:57:58 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • :segasaturn:
     • feld
     @feld @takao @navi It's somewhat possible (I've done it for years), but I'd more recommend the musl-style configure script that spits out a `config.mk`.
     
     At least 90% of what's in a configure script is useless cruft from the Unix wars.
     Like most projects aren't going to make any use of the workarounds for IRIX, pre-Solaris SunOS, … because their own code is likely not compatible at all (say if they use C11 or any somewhat recent POSIX functions).
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     :segasaturn: (takao@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 00:58:26 JST :segasaturn:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • :segasaturn:
     • Angry Sun
     • feld
     @sun @feld @lanodan @navi oh yeah, they would also print \a to be annoying
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 01:11:25 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • :segasaturn:
     • feld
     @navi @feld @takao For me that's regular portability issues, specially when you're at the level of core projects where you're going to hit various kinds of weird deviations between systems.
     
     And there's not that much code, like I tried putting the generic code in my configure scripts into a separated file and it really didn't look worth it because so much of it is just project-specific configuration logic.
     https://hacktivis.me/git/badwolf/file/configure.html (tested and working on Linuxes, BSDs, Haiku)
     https://hacktivis.me/git/utils-std/file/configure.html (tested and working on linuxes, FreeBSD, NetBSD)
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     anna (navi@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 01:11:27 JST anna

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • :segasaturn:
     • feld
     @lanodan @feld @takao
     
     i think a major issue is people (like me) who mainly runs linux, usually glibc linux, and is not aware of the differences needed to build in different unixes
     
     sure i'm picking them up now over time, but having a system that already deals with them for me helps avoiding reinventing the wheel one piece at a time
     
     autotools tho... yeah you don't need 90% of the checks
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Sep-2024 01:31:26 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • :segasaturn:
     • feld
     @navi @feld @takao Which also reminds me of seeing https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/tree/bin/test/tests/legacy_test.sh and the sheer simplicity of it while still being TAP-compliant triggered me in the process of throwing out ATF from utils-std (which I'd see as good, specially as Kyua which it depends on was segfaulting on Haiku).