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   Wherz Demloots (makberberovic@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 22:08:47 JST Wherz Demloots

   • Anarcho Doggo

   @AnarchoDoggo AOC and Bernie endorsed Biden earlier than anyone because they know if the dems lose they would pin the blame on the left for it and everyone else would eat it up. The subsequent rise of fascism would also be blamed on the left, and it would ensure that the USA never gets another progressive law in ever again. Bernie and AOC know that they must live to fight another day. This is why they're still relevant and influential.

   • Embed this notice
     Anarcho Doggo (anarchodoggo@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 22:22:43 JST Anarcho Doggo

     in reply to

     @MakBerberovic weird, nowhere in this convoluted electoral strategizing do I see a justification for funding genocide.

     When you say "everyone would eat it up", are you referring to the people shrieking that the earth is flat and "Jews did 9/11"? Or is it liberals railing against students protesters for not being more polite about confronting war crimes?

     You can use this cudgel ad infinitum (and they have), so yeah, your premise is weak and AOC and Bernie can go fuck themselves

   • Embed this notice
     Wherz Demloots (makberberovic@kolektiva.social)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 22:53:45 JST Wherz Demloots

     in reply to

     • Anarcho Doggo

     @AnarchoDoggo Yep, they should speak the truth and lose and in doing so make sure no progressives are ever relevant again, that'll get us closer to making the world a better place.

   • Embed this notice
     Rozalia Sofia (redrozalia@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 02:38:51 JST Rozalia Sofia

     in reply to

     • Anarcho Doggo

     @MakBerberovic
     @AnarchoDoggo
     you believe that if the democrats dont win, fascism wins. and you believe that if left-wing democrats criticize the president or refuse to support him, the democrats will surely not win.

     the second thing may be true. the u.s. government is controlled by capitalist interests that have a stake in supporting imperialism. one might say that anti-imperialism is politically impossible from within the government. so in that regard, i kind of agree with you.

     but the first thing is all backwards. you see, fascism and liberalism are not two competing factions in politics. they are better thought of as being two "attitudes", or two policy directions. it is possible for one government to express both liberalism and fascism. just as crypto-fascists hide behind the language of liberalism to justify themselves, alleged liberals will quickly turn to support a fascist policy or government to save their skins.

     if your standard for "liberalism vs fascism" is completely unconnected to an ongoing genocide in gaza, and no amount of genocide could convince you that democrats are anything less than sincere but flawed liberals, you may be one of those liberals who is willing to accept fascism.

     actual resistance to fascism consists of nothing less than resistance to capitalism and imperialism, on the part of the organized working class. if you believe that by voting for democrats, you are saving america from fascism, you have already lost.

   • Embed this notice
     Wherz Demloots (makberberovic@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 04:19:39 JST Wherz Demloots

     in reply to

     • Anarcho Doggo
     • Rozalia Sofia

     @redrozalia @AnarchoDoggo I imagine we can agree that AOC and Bernie are the best kinds of liberal available though, and it is in our interest to see those kinds of liberals succeed, because they are one of the few people who COULD help bring this nightmare to a close, rather than trying to tear them down for tactically maintaining their relevance when the deck is stacked against people with good sense.

     It's not about fascist vs liberal, it's about the fact that we need people in politics who we can work with and tearing them down for doing what they must to remain important so they can keep making people's lives better is... dumb.

   • Embed this notice
     Rozalia Sofia (redrozalia@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 04:40:43 JST Rozalia Sofia

     in reply to

     • Anarcho Doggo

     @MakBerberovic
     @AnarchoDoggo
     if anti-imperialism is politically impossible now, even for the most leftist of american politicians, continually voting for them isnt going to change that state of affairs. i dont presume to tell you whether you should vote or not, that isnt at all relevant to my point. but if you want put a stop to the murder of gazans, there is no politician you could conceivably vote for that would help you do it—not this year, not in four years, and not in forty years.

     therefore, getting righteously defensive of these politicians when you see them derided for their "tactical" complicity in genocide is getting nobody nowhere. the criticism is no less valid, people who dont want to vote will still not vote, and the democratic party is zero steps closer to eventually becoming the leftist party you wished for.

   • Embed this notice
     Wherz Demloots (makberberovic@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 08:08:40 JST Wherz Demloots

     in reply to

     • Anarcho Doggo
     • Rozalia Sofia

     @redrozalia @AnarchoDoggo The problem is that if you can't convince people (or implicitly or explicitly discourage them to) do one thing one day every four years, then good luck getting them to do anything that could resemble the change we need to stop the shit going on in Gaza.

     Voting is the barest, easiest minimum. It is the one power we truly do possess. Not exercising this right is like lifting weights but refusing to grip the bar with your hand; you can do it like that but you're being ridiculous.

   • Embed this notice
     Rozalia Sofia (redrozalia@kolektiva.social)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 08:37:20 JST Rozalia Sofia

     in reply to

     • Anarcho Doggo

     @MakBerberovic
     @AnarchoDoggo
     how easy voting, or convincing people to vote, may be is irrelevant. voting has nothing to do with ending the war in gaza. if you all banded together to give the democratic party a win in president, house, and senate for the next ten election cycles, the u.s.a. would still be engaging in imperialist wars.

     dont worry, you probably dont have to do much convincing. the results of this coming election are far beyond your capacity to affect, anyway.