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1. Embed this notice
   Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 21:49:34 JST Blurry Moon
   I guess link-local addressing is just broken on Linux.
   
   There is not clear, unambiguous instructions for setting it up, but I just followed the same instructions you'd use for setting up a private network, and Linux would not even correctly assign the address. When I manually assigned the address, something made the address disappear.
   
   So, I set up a dhcp server.
   
   Everything works perfectly now.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 21:50:57 JST lainy

     in reply to
     @sun me every time after spending days to move my network to ipv6: nice now I can do the exact same things as before they just break more often
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 21:53:59 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @lain so this setup is, simply, two boxes with a cable between them. Couldn't be simpler.
     
     Attempting to communicate between them using self-assigned addresses does not even work the majority of the time. For some or no reason, it just doesn't work, then for a minute or so it will work, then stop again. I can start ping and it will say unreachable for a few minutes, then start pinging successfully, then stop, with no intervention.
     lainy likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 21:56:46 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @lain I guess it could be Debian. They are both Debian. 11 and 12
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 21:57:58 JST lainy

     in reply to
     @sun yeah it should work
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 21:58:24 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @lain this is the part where someone says skill issue
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 21:59:46 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • lainy

     I've never tried IPv6 on just two directly linked machines. I rely on dnsmasq on my router to correctly setup dns/hostname resolution on my network. I manually define the IPv4 addresses and hostnames via MAC address and usually (not always) IPv6 to local addresses will work. Some machines will always use IPv4 via DNS name (might be an Alpine/muscl thing and maybe it prioritizes A records over AAAA records :blobcatshrug:)

   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:03:35 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • djsumdog
     @djsumdog @lain I'll probably try it again sometime in the future but ipv6 always has weird problems.
     djsumdog likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:13:51 JST lainy

     in reply to
     @sun isn’t this supposed to be an automatic feature?
   • Embed this notice
     Jake (formerly sjw) :lain_sneed: (j@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:15:31 JST Jake (formerly sjw) :lain_sneed:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • djsumdog
     @sun @djsumdog @lain why couldn't we just 255.255.0.0.0.0? We could easily make it backwards compatible with IPv4 as well. We may have to give up IP compression outside of IPv4 tho. I just don't see how to implement it without breaking everything using the IP address 1.1 for DNS.
     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:16:20 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @lain ipv6 is but Linux doesn’t do an ipv4 one. I tried it because of the network dropping in ipv6. Everything failed
   • Embed this notice
     🌈ᚩ🌈 (bonifartius@noauthority.social)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:37:08 JST 🌈ᚩ🌈

     in reply to

     @sun maybe it's because you are running a dhcp client now which also does ipv6 stuff, i think dhcpcd does that. the link local addresses should work without though. could also be debian (or systemd) doing things though.

     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:40:10 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • Phantasm
     • Eric Zhang 2: Episode 1
     • Pete Zaitcev
     @zaitcev @eric @lain @phnt there's no network manager but it does appear that systemd-networkd is running
   • Embed this notice
     Pete Zaitcev (zaitcev@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:40:11 JST Pete Zaitcev

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • Phantasm
     • Eric Zhang 2: Episode 1
     @eric @phnt @lain @sun That's not even the point. It's clear that Moonman is letting some periodic activity to interfere. May be non-default NM or systemd-networkd. I bet his journalctl or /var/log/messages has clues to it. We're not likely to find out over the Internet without a remote KVM or something.
   • Embed this notice
     Eric Zhang 2: Episode 1 (eric@pl.starnix.network)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:40:12 JST Eric Zhang 2: Episode 1

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • Phantasm
     @phnt @lain @sun debian uses ifupdown by default instead of networkmanager
   • Embed this notice
     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:40:13 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @sun @lain Since it's debian, it probably uses NetworkManager. If you don't setup the connection and address with NetworkManager and use iproute (ifconfig/ip), I've seen that NetworkManager will just delete the connection and act like nothing ever happened.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:42:21 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • Phantasm
     • Eric Zhang 2: Episode 1
     • Pete Zaitcev
     @zaitcev @eric @lain @phnt nothing configured for ipv6 but it does have dhcp set for ipv4 so that could be why the ipv4 part didn't work.
     
     why does it still have /etc/network/interfaces if it doesn't use it.
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:42:40 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • Jake (formerly sjw) :lain_sneed:
     I've learned to not hate the address space/notation. There are some neat things built in like rotating the globally scoped address so individual machines in your house/network are more difficult to track (which doesn't matter today since everything is tracked via browser fingerprinting).
     
     IPv6 was created a long time ago and was pretty ambitious. Every IPv4 address can be represented as an IPv6 address (e.g. 192.168.10.10 is ::ffff:c0a8:0a0a) and had a path to adoption via 4-in-6 tunneling, but it wasn't until the past decade anyone has really implemented IPv6 only networks like that at scale (mostly mobile providers, T-Mobile being the earliest example in most countries).
     
     Most ISPs don't bother though, keeping things dual stack and switching IPv4 to carrier based NAT (100.x)
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:51:07 JST 

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • djsumdog
     • Jake (formerly sjw) :lain_sneed:
     @djsumdog @j @lain @sun >Most ISPs don't bother though, keeping things dual stack
     Mine doesn't bother with IPv6 at all, have to use some free tunnel broker for that.
   • Embed this notice
     Jake (formerly sjw) :lain_sneed: (j@bae.st)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 23:25:28 JST Jake (formerly sjw) :lain_sneed:

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • djsumdog
     @djsumdog @lain @sun yeah I know. It sucks tho. But yeah there's literally 2 internets right now
     djsumdog likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 00:19:18 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • pomstan
     @pomstan @lain host is a debian 11 box running Tor daemon.
     
     it has a second interface directly connected to a second box that has no internet access. The tor box is firewalled so that the second box can only respond to tcp requests, it can't initiate anything. the second box will contain a service provided to tor as a hidden service.
     
     this is an experiment, for "fun" (I'm not having fun yet)
   • Embed this notice
     pomstan (pomstan@xn--p1abe3d.xn--80asehdb)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 00:19:19 JST pomstan

     in reply to

     • lainy

     @sun @lain what exactly are you doing

   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 00:56:43 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • pomstan
     @pomstan @lain I was but it didn't work right so switched to dhcp and ipv4
   • Embed this notice
     pomstan (pomstan@xn--p1abe3d.xn--80asehdb)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 00:56:44 JST pomstan

     in reply to

     • lainy

     @sun @lain so you are using ipv6 link-locals or what?

   • Embed this notice
     arcanicanis (arcanicanis@were.social)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 02:36:32 JST arcanicanis

     in reply to

     • lainy

     You don't use link-local addresses in this way. The point of the link-local address is that it can always be directly inferred by it's MAC address and not something you would typically manually assign. There's also annoying specifics with link-local addresses that make them less usable, specifically that they MUST have an interface identifier on them when entering them in any software, like accessing a webpage by link-local address. For example, you HAVE TO do http://[fe80:🔢56ab:cdef%eth0] you can't just do it plain, as the link-local address is meaningless without the device identifier.

     The IPv6 link-local fe80::/64 range is like IPv4's 169.254.0.0/16 range, except it doesn't pull numbers randomly out it's as, and again: has the additional oddity of requiring an interface ID at the end. Meanwhile that creates an odd predicament with DNS, even with a HOSTS file.

     Nonetheless, what you're looking for instead is the Unique-Local addressing, using the fc00::/7 range, which is more equivalent to IPv4's 10.0.0.0/8 and other private-use IP ranges. Within fc00::/7 it's recommended you only use fd00::/8

     If it's two computers directly wired together, you could pretty much just number them as fd00::1/64 and fd00::2/64, or whatever values you want.

     Blurry Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 02:39:08 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • pomstan
     @pomstan @lain entry in /etc/network/interfaces
     
     Found out systemd networkd was standard now tho
   • Embed this notice
     pomstan (pomstan@xn--p1abe3d.xn--80asehdb)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 02:39:09 JST pomstan

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • pomstan

     @sun @lain

     I just followed the same instructions you'd use for setting up a private network, and Linux would not even correctly assign the address. When I manually assigned the address, something made the address disappear.

     what are those instructions

   • Embed this notice
     pomstan (pomstan@xn--p1abe3d.xn--80asehdb)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 02:39:10 JST pomstan

     in reply to

     • lainy

     @sun @lain it can't just not work, having default nexthop on a link-local is standard behavior, and in your case it's even easier because it's point-to-point

     how did you debug it

   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 04:22:09 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • pomstan
     • Account: Computers
     @pro @lain @pomstan its been in debian for a really long time
   • Embed this notice
     Account: Computers (pro@mu.zaitcev.nu)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Aug-2024 04:22:17 JST Account: Computers

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • pomstan
     @sun @lain @pomstan You know, I've used Linux since 0.99-p12 and SLS 1.02, and I've never heard about /etc/network/interfaces.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:17:33 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • pomstan
     • lamp
     @lamp @lain @pomstan no firewall
   • Embed this notice
     lamp (lamp@kitty.haus)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:17:34 JST lamp

     in reply to

     • lainy
     • pomstan
     @sun @pomstan @lain did u allow icmpv6 in firewall
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:20:09 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lamp
     @lamp ipv6 link local address was automatic. ipv4 link local was not. I tried ipv4 because ipv6 always has bullshit problems but could never get ipv4 y=to work either.
     
     switching to using private network ipv4 addresses made everything work.
   • Embed this notice
     lamp (lamp@kitty.haus)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:20:10 JST lamp

     in reply to
     @sun >setting it up
     
     u shouldnt have to "set it up", as long as ipv6 is enabled in linux kernel interfaces always have a link-local address (directly translates to mac address)
   • Embed this notice
     lamp (lamp@kitty.haus)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:21:26 JST lamp

     in reply to

     • lainy
     @sun @lain remember when using link-local addresses you have to specify the interface
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:21:26 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lamp
     @lamp yes. I can set it up to ping automatically, and I can watch ping fail for a few minutes in a row, then work for a minute, then fail again, repeat.
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:23:20 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lamp
     @lamp I do, it includes %eth1
     
     it does work, sometimes.
   • Embed this notice
     lamp (lamp@kitty.haus)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:23:21 JST lamp

     in reply to
     @sun ok well same thing u have to tell the computer which interface the remote link-local address is on.
   • Embed this notice
     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:23:22 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • pomstan
     • lamp
     @sun @lamp @pomstan sexy
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:30:09 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lamp
     @lamp as I mentioned though switching to private network IPs and IPv4 100% fixed it so I'm moving forward
   • Embed this notice
     lamp (lamp@kitty.haus)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:30:10 JST lamp

     in reply to
     @sun hmm weird
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:34:34 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lamp
     @lamp the parent machine, the one that has internet access. I configured it to only serve dhcp on its second nic
   • Embed this notice
     lamp (lamp@kitty.haus)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:34:35 JST lamp

     in reply to
     @sun dhcp on a point-to-point link? whos the dhcp server?
   • Embed this notice
     Blurry Moon (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 22-Aug-2024 03:38:59 JST Blurry Moon

     in reply to

     • lamp
     @lamp I am gonna add two more boxes to the private network and put them all on a switch