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   SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 20:45:09 JST SuperDicq

   Can a Debian guy and a NixOS girl really be in a relationship?

   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 20:46:52 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Reid :ablobcatattention:

     @Reiddragon@fedi.reimu.info It's fine I'm obnoxious about Debian.

   • Embed this notice
     Reid :ablobcatattention: (reiddragon@fedi.reimu.info)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 20:46:59 JST Reid :ablobcatattention:

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq I'm yet to meet anyone using nixos who isn't obnoxious about nix
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 20:49:07 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq no because the debian install would be purged for out of date belief packages :gutkato_tamburo:
   • Embed this notice
     Sally (sally@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:21:12 JST Sally

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq
     
     How can you stick to Debian still after all the extremely annoying and dumb shit they've been doing for the last decade, I wonder.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:21:12 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Sally

     @sally@shitposter.world Such as? I still think all the dumb shit Debian has done pales in comparison to all the dumb shit most other distros have done.

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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:53:08 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Sally

     @sally@shitposter.world Declaring the GNU Free Documentation license proprietary.I thought that was a debate in good faith, I think the objections from the Debian on the GNU FDL are valid concerns.
     soystemd.I don't give a shit, I don't understand the systemd hate bandwagon.
     Join the bandwagon on defaming Stallman because OSI psyop.Debian did NOT join this bandwagon. There was a vote on it: https://www.debian.org/vote/2021/vote_002#outcome
     Going proprietary by default since 12 and removing the choice to get ISO installers that are free for no reason other than blatant OSI psyop shenanigans.This is one of the major things that the Debian project has done that I absolutely disagree with. Non-free-firmware should not be enabled by default.
     
     Still this one dumb decision alone is not enough to make me leave Debian as I don't know where else to go.
     
     I mean I like that Devuan decided to not follow Debian's example on the firmware issue, but I've never had issues with systemd so learning how to work with a different init system is probably not worth it for me.
     
     I have been thinking about PureOS, as it is essentially just the FSF endorsed version of Debian. However PureOS is a purely desktop focused distro with a lot of crap preinstalled that (to my knowledge) does not have a minimal install that you can use on servers. I assume it's a lot more work than just simply setting up Debian with firmware=never.

   • Embed this notice
     Sally (sally@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 22:53:09 JST Sally

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq
     
     > Such as?
     
     Declaring the GNU Free Documentation license proprietary.
     
     soystemd.
     
     Join the bandwagon on defaming Stallman because OSI psyop.
     
     Going proprietary by default since 12 and removing the choice to get ISO installers that are free for no reason other than blatant OSI psyop shenanigans.
     
     In that order, iirc.
     
     
     > I still think all the dumb shit Debian has done pales in comparison to all the dumb shit most other distros have done.
     
     The difference being that distros that are shit have always been shit, but Debian went downhill ever since Ian killed himself, it's progressively getting worse and it's not getting any better.
     
     
     Debian is a clear example of why "open source" is nonfree in spirit rather than letter.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 23:30:03 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Sally

     @sally@shitposter.world I don't want to go into Molly de Blanc right now, but she doesn't have as much influence on the Debian project as you think. She has also basically gone radio silent since the stallman smear campaign.
     
     Also what individual contributors of the Debian project think should not matter when you choose which operating you want to use. I think the official stance is far more important.
     
     While a lot of work goes into Trisquel and I appreciate everyone who works on it I personally dislike using Trisquel because it is based on Ubuntu instead of Debian, it doesn't really do things "the debian way" if you know what I mean.

   • Embed this notice
     Sally (sally@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 23:30:04 JST Sally

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq
     
     
     > I thought that was a debate in good faith, I think the objections from the Debian on the GNU FDL are valid concerns.
     
     The problem is it makes them look hypocritical given the proprietary software exception they made on 12 that goes against their own guidelines.
     
     
     > I don't give a shit, I don't understand the systemd hate bandwagon.
     
     The hate is justified for two reasons:
     
     1. The decision was carried out without consideration that some people would not want to be stuck on a single init without being able to choose another one, something that is trivial to do, proven by Devuan.
     
     
     2. soystemd is just an abysmally dogshit piece of software, massive, complex and poorly understood by everyone, plagued with CVEs every single year, and with a despicable dev lead that is very obviously OSI psyopped.
     
     
     > Debian did NOT join this bandwagon.
     
     Debian as a project didn't, but a large majority of the lead dev members did push for this debate (with Molly herself, deeply involved with both Debian and GNOME, as one of the original authors) in the hopes it did after they signed individually only to boost the signature numbers and falsely make it look like more people and groups are against him. You can go and check the open letter, Ctrl + F "Debian", and you'll see there's several names that glow. And that's not counting the ones that did sign without stating from what group are they part of, doing some digging reveals even more.
     
     
     
     > I mean I like that Devuan decided to not follow Debian's example on the firmware issue
     
     > He doesn't know Devuan decided to ship with nonfree software even before Debian did.
     
     
     > I have been thinking about PureOS.
     
     Don't, it's dead in the dirt, go for Trisquel instead of that, if anything, it has minimal installers and it can be used just fine for servers (the FSF hosts all their stuff on Trisquel), It still uses apt as the main package manager and it's free. Or you can try your luck with this: https://gnuinos.org/
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 23:52:52 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Sally

     @sally@shitposter.world I think you should use the software that you want to use, regardless of who created it. That's the beauty of free software, having the ability to "separate the art from the artist" if you will.
     
     I think Trisquel is great for being definitely the most mature and stable FSF-endorsed distro out there. I just don't like following the Ubuntu release schedule and I definitely prefer any distro that follows Debian's instead. This is a very personal preference, I would definitely advice other people to use Trisquel.
     
     I think GNU Guix is great for very specific usecases (like Nix, but better?).
     
     For general use (aka; just want it work) I am not a fan of declarative systems, they require far to much tinkering. I run Debian on all my machines that are not hobby projects and just need to work and be stable.

   • Embed this notice
     Sally (sally@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 23:52:53 JST Sally

     in reply to
     @SuperDicq
     
     > I don't want to go into Molly de Blanc right now, but she doesn't have as much influence on the Debian project as you think.
     
     I hope this is true, but we'll never know for sure, the math tells me that she potentially influenced a good deal of people in it considering the numbers in that vote.
     
     > She has also basically gone radio silent since the stallman smear campaign.
     
     Good riddance, I hope that bitch doesn't try to pull similar stunts against free software enjoyers ever again.
     
     > Also what individual contributors of the Debian project think should not matter when you choose which operating you want to use. I think the official stance is far more important.
     
     Your opinion. Mine's that it's a mix of both, but regardless of that the Stallman drama is just one of the multiple reasons I'm sick and tired of Debian as a whole, and if I use that distribution it's despite the people involved in it, not because of them, something I can't say when it comes to Trisquel or Guix.
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 20-Aug-2024 23:57:22 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Sally

     @sally@shitposter.world I like tinkering with GNU Guix, but the thought of throwing it on either on my main server or laptop computer still really scares me.
     
     Debian is really comfortable because I've been using it for at least 15 years at this point.