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   wlo (wizard@xyzzy.link)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 05:55:23 JST wlo
   genuinely i feel like it's the year of the (gnu/)linux desktop. all of the weird wayland transitionary parts of the past 10 years are coming to an end. it has the greatest audio server (pipewire) of any major operating system. hardware is just plug & play now in a ton of common cases. games & windows-exclusive software mostly just works after a standard installation process.
   
   there's nothing the average computer user will miss at this point, aside from the familiarity of their old software stacks.
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: like this.
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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 05:56:44 JST taylor

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     @wizard@xyzzy.link except for the part where I'm maintaining a stack of custom .desktop files to force apps into Wayland mode

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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 05:57:23 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

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     • taylor
     @nik @wizard not to mention the still present de/wm and packaging jank that can't be totally gotten around even if you use flatpak for literally everything
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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 05:58:02 JST taylor

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     @wizard@xyzzy.link also nobody tests their shit on Wayland, electron has had fatal regressions in Wayland like 4x in the last few years

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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 05:58:54 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

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     • taylor
     @nik @wizard thankfully this should be less of an issue now that fedora and pop os will be forcing wayland on their default configs and other distros should be following suit in very short order
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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 05:59:40 JST taylor

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     @wizard@xyzzy.link anyways. the nice features are nice but the baseline experience is ok. I wouldn't recommend it to the average user who won't Google an error message though.

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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 05:59:41 JST taylor

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     @wizard@xyzzy.link same with Firefox tho I think it's gotten somewhat better, except I still can't figure out how to get hardware video accel in ff

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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:02:52 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

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     • taylor
     @wizard @nik the only other ones I can think of off the top of my head that are commonly used by linux users are vscode and... spotify? figma maybe?
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     wlo (wizard@xyzzy.link)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:02:53 JST wlo

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     • taylor
     @allison @nik i did say the wayland transitionary period is "coming to an end," it's still not quiiiite all there lol
     
     but honestly for most things it's just edge cases. most of the inconsistencies with display servers i don't think, running on xwayland tends to only result in minor glitchy types of things that tend not to affect the overall software
     
     im not entirely familiar with electron apps tbh, all i ever use is discord (which definitely does suck on linux)
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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:05:57 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

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     • taylor
     @wizard @nik very shallowly, their intuitions beyond "click x button for y action" tend to be close to non existent and they tend to rely on users with more developed intuitions around them (if they know any) to not get lost in the mire (most of the "os as bootloader for google chrome" types fit handily here, for better or worse)
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     wlo (wizard@xyzzy.link)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:05:58 JST wlo

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     • taylor
     @nik i don't know how windows users survive without knowing how to research their error messages tbh
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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:06:27 JST taylor

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     @allison@hidamari.apartments @wizard@xyzzy.link I've been using spotify's web app launched under chromium with the --app flag but their DRM support sucks such shit it's incredibly slow to start new playback, might go back to blurry desktop spotify

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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:11:56 JST taylor

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     @wizard@xyzzy.link actually java swing is so bad it won't even work under xwayland, mouse input is mega busted. have to switch to an x session to use any software in it.

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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:11:57 JST taylor

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     @wizard@xyzzy.link I guess it's only a few frameworks that haven't caught up but I use a lot of apps made using them. anything chromium based and anything gecko/Firefox based. gimp stable still doesn't support wayland too I think, beta is ok but crashy. java swing and steam (and weirdly Spotify even tho that's CEF) don't support wayland at all, just have to deal with the blurry.

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     wlo (wizard@xyzzy.link)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:11:58 JST wlo

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     • taylor
     @nik idk what apps you're using but i haven't had to do this for several years at this point
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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:13:07 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

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     • taylor
     @nik @wizard which de? also what java swing software is still used regularly? outside of an ibm as/400 terminal emulator using it, I haven't seen anything in the last decade plus
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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:14:10 JST taylor

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     @allison@hidamari.apartments @wizard@xyzzy.link apps I use on occasion are jadx-gui and an OSM editor

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     taylor (nik@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:15:57 JST taylor

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     @allison@hidamari.apartments @wizard@xyzzy.link oh and I use sway, but I've tried it in gnome Wayland and had the same experience

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     wlo (wizard@xyzzy.link)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:16:53 JST wlo

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     • taylor
     @nik @allison ime kde is the premier experience for wayland atm, but ive been running gnome on my laptop for the past couple weeks and its been pretty smooth sailing here :)
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     wlo (wizard@xyzzy.link)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:16:59 JST wlo

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     • taylor
     @nik @allison glad to know that java swing remains legacy and/or niche in 2024
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     :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: (allison@hidamari.apartments)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:18:10 JST :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans:

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     • taylor
     @wizard @nik fellow kde user here, I think all of the major ones are more or less equivalent except for cosmic which still has a number of issues around xwayland (kind of expected given it's pre-alpha software but still)
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     LisPi (lispi314@udongein.xyz)'s status on Monday, 15-Jul-2024 06:51:51 JST LisPi

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     • taylor
     @allison @nik @wizard I'd considered using Swing recently for a project to not have to deal with external dependencies on annoying things to compile. (Fuck the GTK & Qt build processes)
     
     Of course as it turns out I found that someone else had already implemented what I had in mind so it didn't make it past planning phase.
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