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   Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱 (notjustbikes@social.notjustbikes.com)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 08:32:28 JST Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱

   I occasionally get people messaging me after doing a surface-level analysis of how many people die each year from crashes while cycling versus other countries.

   This is often done to "debunk" the need for safe cycling infrastructure.

   This graph shows the real reason.

   Notice that the VAST majority of cycling-related deaths in NL are from people over 60.

   People over 60 are more likely to die in any serious crash.

   In other countries, these people don't cycle at all, because it's not safe.

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱 (notjustbikes@social.notjustbikes.com)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 08:32:25 JST Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     It's also complicated by the fact that the Netherlands has very very high quality data about cycling (like modeshare), while other countries do not.

     So you're comparing good data to guaranteed incomplete and/or inaccurate data.

     And if somebody tries to "debunk" Dutch cycling infrastructure design by looking only at "cycling deaths per capita" I just immediately block them.

     That's just moronic when over 80% of people cycle here, while less than 1% of people cycle in many other countries.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱 (notjustbikes@social.notjustbikes.com)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 08:32:26 JST Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     Now some might then go on to say that older people shouldn't be cycling, then they'd be "safe".

     But these people are still dying (often at even higher rates) in other countries; they just don't show up in "cycling" statistics because they're not cycling.

     Instead they die of heart disease, or other diseases related to inactivity. Or they die in car crashes.

     This is why comparing road safety statistics between countries is extremely difficult, especially for cycling.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 08:38:12 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @notjustbikes In fact given how many are cycling in the Netherlands, this isn't a lot, makes me wonder if there would be a better way of counting, like crash/death per kilometers or hours driven.
     
     Also what is happening with 20-30 years old driving cars?
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     Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱 (notjustbikes@social.notjustbikes.com)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 09:36:56 JST Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan drivers in their 20s are novice drivers and are therefore more likely to get in a crash, but they are also more likely to drive dangerously, especially men.

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     Kernel Bob (kbob@chaos.social)'s status on Sunday, 07-Jul-2024 16:52:21 JST Kernel Bob

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @notjustbikes @lanodan To the extent that it's "more likely to drive dangerously", that should also lead to an increase in bike fatalities at that age, which doesn't show in the data. I think it's almost all driving inexperience.

     In any case, thanks for sharing this data.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Peter Brown (peterbrown@mastodon.scot)'s status on Sunday, 21-Jul-2024 03:04:54 JST Peter Brown

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan @notjustbikes don’t be drawn into measuring it by kilometre because that just favours combustion engine travel.  That’s why the aviation industry use per kilometre statistics because it makes them look very safe due to the very large number of kilometres travelled, but passengers are really only interested in whether they are going to get there or not.
     They do not sit on the plane counting the kilometres .

     So perhaps better to measure by trip?

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.