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   You Will Never Know Why (why@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 28-Jun-2024 11:46:45 JST You Will Never Know Why
   Does it make it less artful for the story in a game to be contrived around the gameplay? Games are about gameplay, it is the distinguishing feature of the artform that specifies the form. Do we hate on films for contriving the music to fit the filmmaking? If a film were to black out and just play music for 10 minutes would that just be cool everyone would say "yeah i like the score i didnt really care for the filmmaking but the score was good we mostly care about the score here go watch this for the score its so good". Nobody even talks about the score! So why do so-called "art games" care more about the story than the gameplay? People love being anti non-diegetic music, I demand a movement hating on non-diegetic story in games.
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     Pissed Hippo (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 28-Jun-2024 11:46:44 JST Pissed Hippo

     in reply to
     @why > Games are about gameplay, it is the distinguishing feature of the artform that specifies the form. [...] So why do so-called "art games" care more about the story than the gameplay?
     
     You know how you know a question is devastatingly sound but it's not what people want to hear so it can't even be ridiculed, it just has to be non-present, leaving a big visible hole
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     You Will Never Know Why (why@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 28-Jun-2024 11:46:45 JST You Will Never Know Why

     in reply to
     I think I'm ready to admit that games are not a storytelling medium. In the same way music is not a storytelling medium.
     Music and games do tell stories. They can be good at it, but they don't need it to be. Arguably film and prose don't either but a very large audience would dislike it very much. It really is the cancer, for an artform to be compared to film. Much of the film critics and fans are very story-pilled in a way that misses out on filmmaking. Applying this mindset to music would be absurd, imagine picking on a concept album for abusing some tvtropes. Why aren't we allowed to do the same for games?
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     You Will Never Know Why (why@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jun-2024 00:44:21 JST You Will Never Know Why

     in reply to

     • Pissed Hippo
     @sun i really hope a new generation of game literacy raises up dmc3 instead of silent hill 2. theres a substantial amount of indie games that do understand the game-first nature of the medium. but i wanna see a larger movement in this regard.
     i wanna see kojima criticized not for cutscene length, but for story->gameplay irrelevance (mgs1-4 did imo).
     the term "ludonarrative dissonance" has a very narrative-first implication. its missing the point
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     You Will Never Know Why (why@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jun-2024 00:50:58 JST You Will Never Know Why

     in reply to

     • Passenger
     @colahpse and i dont really mind it, but the "popcorn story" works get put in the "artsy fartsy" category while the game-first gamer games are considered low entertainment.
     but what gives me hope is that general audiences are unaffected by this. for example, helldivers 2 popped off, where the rest of sony's movie story games didn't. you dont see film audiences liking a film for the filmmaking, but game audiences like games for the gameplay. and i dont think its gonna change, its inherent to the medium.
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     Passenger (colahpse@bae.st)'s status on Saturday, 29-Jun-2024 00:51:00 JST Passenger

     in reply to
     @why
     Writing popcorn stories is easier than designing engaging gameplay, unfortunately.