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   Gianmarco Gargiulo :tux: :kde: (gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:05:37 JST Gianmarco Gargiulo :tux: :kde:

   • SuperDicq

   Hi @SuperDicq, Louis Rossmann seems to have finally addressed the FUTO License problem, tell me what you think.

   https://peertube.futo.org/videos/watch/4d3a2777-34b9-4573-b5d3-16eeea70f8f6

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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:05:35 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno This isn't the first time he's trying to open wash his garbage.
     
     He keeps claiming his license is "open source".
     
     He says in the video "The software license that we have created is a license that is very different from other open source licenses".
     
     Your license is not open source, you're not part of that club, stop false advertisin.g

     翠星石 and Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: like this.
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:35:04 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno It is a non-commercial license. Restricting commercial use is a usage restriction, which makes the software non-free according to both the FSF and OSI.
     
     Louis wants to die on his hill by saying "this is good actually", because in his narrow worldview non-commercial means that "consumers" will be "free".
     
     I do not look at the world in such a narrow worldview where there's only "consumers" and "corporations". Real life is a lot more complicated.
     
     Sure this blocks large corporations like Google from using the software, you will achieve that goal, but by making the license non-commercial you also block the following people from using the software:
     
     * Freelancers
     * Small businesses
     * Startups
     * Consultants
     And the list goes on.
     
     This is obviously a huge problem and this is why real free (and open source) software always allows commercial use, there's no freedom without it.

   • Embed this notice
     Gianmarco Gargiulo :tux: :kde: (gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:35:05 JST Gianmarco Gargiulo :tux: :kde:

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq

     @SuperDicq what parts of the current license (Grayjay Core License) are problematic?

     https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/commit/035d19f581daaa3c773ab8e6e1bc5ad970605f4d

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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:42:47 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno In his video Louis uses Youtube and FFmpeg as an example.
     
     It is true that Youtube makes enormous amounts of money using free software such as FFmpeg.
     
     It would also be a good thing if FFmpeg gets a share of money from Youtube. I agree, of course.
     
     However, if FFmpeg suddenly changed its license to be non-commercial I will highly doubt that Youtube will suddenly start paying FFmpeg money.
     
     What is more likely to happen is that Youtube will throw FFmpeg out of the door and use something else, again ending up in a situation where FFmpeg gets no money. But now the usage of FFmpeg is also restricted for everyone else, ending up in an overall worse situation than it was before.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:45:35 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @gianmarcogg03 In fact it's pretty weird for Louis Rossman of all the people to go with a non-commercial license.
     Like he's doing the same shit as Apple there.
     
     Also I'm not entirely sure but I'm not 100% sure redistribution is allowed either given "These terms do not allow you to sublicense or transfer any of your licenses to anyone else" plus lack of explicit permission to do so.
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:45:37 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Yes, especially with previously free software that is often the case. Just look at Redis or Elasticsearch as prime example of what will happen if you try to relicense.

   • Embed this notice
     Gianmarco Gargiulo :tux: :kde: (gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:45:38 JST Gianmarco Gargiulo :tux: :kde:

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq

     @SuperDicq or even take an older version of the code before the license change and keep developing it by themselves (unless the original license is the GPL or something like that, I currently don't know).

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 18:53:38 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @gianmarcogg03 And I think legally it means nobody else but "FUTO Holdings, Inc." can publish to things like the Play Store.
     
     Or if there's no copyright assignment (which is basically a license backdoor) and external contributions: Nobody.
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:07:31 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno However I feel like I'm not addressing the main concern of the video, which is how should free software engineers make money?
     
     The idea that all free software is actually being developed by proprietary big tech engineers in their spare time is a myth.
     
     In fact, most notable free software projects are developed and maintained by successful companies who hire top engineers and pay their employees well.
     
     Yes, we're talking about multi million dollar companies that hire the top engineers like Docker, Canonical, SUSE, Apache, MariaDB, Nextcloud, Blender, etc.
     
     Top engineers getting paid very well to develop free software is not like a pipe dream, as Louis paints it in this video.
     
     This is already reality for thousands of engineers worldwide. And we did not need non-commercial restrictions to achieve this.

     翠星石 and Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: like this.
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:12:05 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Quote from the video:"The good programmers, they are not going to work at Nextcloud"You are wrong, Louis, they are working Nextcloud, I know them, I've spoken to them, and I believe they are being paid well.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:18:05 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Another funny quote from the video:"Consumer open source has failed because box office movies are edited using Adobe Premiere and not Kdenlive"I'm sorry Louis, but box office movies are definitely made within a commercial setting...

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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:19:48 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Also the fact that he mentions Apache is an example is laughable.
     
     Apache is a 10 billion dollar company.

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:44:19 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @gianmarcogg03 In fact they seem to do the quite usual thing of support contracts and paid hosting: https://nextcloud.com/pricing/
     And for a pretty large team: https://nextcloud.com/team/
     
     Which makes sense, like even if open-source allows to paid anyone, you'll likely prefer doing business with the existing members as they're familiar with the code and it means sustained maintenance.
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:46:00 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Another point I'd like to address is that I don't think free software is not making enough money.
     
     I think in general there is enough money to develop free software. I do feel some projects are a little underfunded compared to others, but this will always happen in a market economy.
     
     The real problem is that big tech makes too much money. Your Googles, Amazons and Apples are outshining the competition.
     
     This is not because "open source has failed", this because they are abusing the system, creating monopolies and fucking over everyone.
     
     Louis, as an experienced lobbyist, should know that you do not solve this mess by adding non-commercial restrictions to your software license.
     
     This mess can only be solved by governmental reforms, such as abolishing software patents, reforming copyright law, bringing back real antitrust laws, and many more things like that.
     
     Set up the system in such a way so that the only profitable thing to do is be good towards your users!

     翠星石 and Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: like this.
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:47:08 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Nextcloud is a fork of Owncloud. If Owncloud had a non-commercial license (that Louis is defending), Nextcloud would not exist!

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:50:42 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @gianmarcogg03 Yeah that too.
     But I think if owncloud had a non-commercial license it also would have seen essentially no adoption, because it would be pretty much undistinguishable from all the bunch of hosted (Dropbox, Google Docs, …) or proprietary on-premise software (like what you have in a NAS).
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:51:43 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Yes and this is also why nobody is using Grayjay too.
     
     Imagine if Grayjay was allowed to be in Fdroid and competed with NewPipe and such...

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:54:16 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq @gianmarcogg03 And that's with the clout of Louis Rossman behind it.
     That pig is not gonna fly no matter how much trust it has.
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:54:38 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me @gianmarcogg03@mastodon.uno Yeah it's just sad to see that he wants to die on this hill. All of this could be fixed if he simply released the thing with a FSF/OSI approved license.

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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:56:17 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Hyolobrika

     @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net Not exactly, he's an employee at FUTO, but he is choosing to defend this decision while saying "I'm allowed to disagree with my boss".

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 19:56:18 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • SuperDicq
     Is Louis actually in charge of it though?
   • Embed this notice
     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 20:00:37 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Hyolobrika

     @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net And yeah I totally understand that you do want Google or someone else to swoop in and make a proprietary fork of your app.
     
     We have a solution for that and it's called copyleft...

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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 20:27:47 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     • Hyolobrika

     @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net Yes and the fact that this is a deliberate decision means I get to criticize him personally.

   • Embed this notice
     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 11-Jun-2024 20:27:48 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     Maybe he is allowed to disagree with his boss and he chooses not to.