Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
#Tories #CONservatives #Tory #Sunak #GTTO #ToryCorruption #ToryScum #Brexit #Covid #Starmer #Labour
Austerity, Brexit, Covid Lockdown Parties, PPE Scandal, Raw Sewage in UK Waterways & Coastal Areas, Economic Crash, Record Inflation, Record Interest Rates, Cost of Living Crisis, Pensions Decimated, Mortgage Rises, NHS in Crisis, Schools Crumbling, Housing Crisis...
This is the choice. It's really that simple.
#GE2024 4th July
Vote #Labour 🌹 ❎️ 🗳
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens Except for viewers in Scotland. #TheyBothAre
Chitchat
@AnthonyFStevens @soren @CloudyMrs labour are against independence for Scotland. In that respect they are no different to Tories or Lib Dems
Mrs Cloudy
@Cyclist @AnthonyFStevens @soren it isn't just that they are anti independence. That would be a legitimate position for them to take. They are anti democracy for Scotland. They think they should be able to decide whether we even get to ask the question.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
Agreed. However, I believe #Labour in #Westminster are best for #Scotland & ultimately its independence. 🏴 🙏🏾
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
The #SNP seem in disarray. What the Scots have to consider is are their interests best served by #Sunak or #Starmer?
Unfortunately, that's the reality of the situation.
Soren Mogensen
@AnthonyFStevens @CloudyMrs SNP is best for Scotland no matter who sits in Westminster.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @soren how? They are equally opposed to respecting Scottish democracy.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens #BetterTogether my arse. That's a choice between two options we don't want. Not entirely sure why you think the state of the SNP is even relevant to that situation.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Cyclist @soren Don't you agree that a European parliament would be better for the UK than a Tory Government? Or for the UK to become part of France?
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
#Labour are in favour of keeping the Union in tact. However, for the UK as a whole, don't you agree a Labour government is a better choice, than these corrupt, inept #Tories?
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Cyclist @soren Thank goodness we have such kind and benevolent friends to save us from ourselves. Imagine how badly wrong we might get things without such clear-headed intervention.
"As it stands", it's about 50:50 for independence. We don't actually know the true figure because our kind and benevolent friends won't take the risk of 'allowing' us to find out. Makes no difference who or what we vote for. Our voices are irrelevant.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
As things stand, there's a Scottish majority in favour of remaining in the Union.
I'm all in favour of #Scottish Independence & a United #Ireland, but as I've mentioned to my Scottish friends many times, the practicalities of how independence will work in reality seem very sketchy.
What happens to the border, security, defence, North Sea Oil, currency, Pensions, social security etc?
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Wen @soren seriously? Oh my goodness.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
Where have #Labour stated they intend to claw back devolved powers from #Scotland?
Wen
@AnthonyFStevens @soren @CloudyMrs
Given Labour are not even prepared to give Scots a vote and are determined to claw back powers from a devolved Scotland, how on earth do you work that one out?
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens What is the democratic mechanism for Scotland to achieve our independence?
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
The #SNP seem in disarray. I hope they sort themselves out, & that the #Tories are wiped out in Scotland.
Ultimately, until #Scotland achieves independence, I believe #Scottish interests as part of the #UK will be best served by a #Labour government & not a #FarRight #Tory one.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Cyclist @soren that wasn't the proposition. Being part of the EU is entirely different from being run entirely by a fictional EU Government. Would you give up statehood entirely to be rid of a useless Tory government? That's closer to what you think Scots should embrace.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
I believe the UK is stronger as part of the #EU. If I had a wish, it would be to see an Independent #Scotland, a united #Ireland, a devolved/independent Wales & all of us as a part of a string & unified Europe.
Will this ever happen? I very much doubt it in my lifetime. HOWEVER, I never thought the UK would vote #Brexit, or that #Trump or Doris Johnson would become President & Prime Minister respectively.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @soren @Cyclist Anything of note happen since 2014?
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
Feeling #Scottish over #British, is a very different question to #ScottishIndependence.
The last Scottish Independence poll I saw was closer to 55/45 for remaining in the union.
Soren Mogensen
@AnthonyFStevens @CloudyMrs @Cyclist when was that referendum? Only yesterday the census numbers were published showing that two thirds of people in Scotland felt Scottish, not British.
If everyone in Scotland had to vote in a referendum then I doubt you would be right about where the majority of votes would go.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Wen @soren not hard to find. Google it. Or Google Starmer's most recent pronouncements that categorically reject the democratic will of Scotland because he decided it isnt in our best interest. #arrogance https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51139519
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
Can you post a link to this for me please?
Wen
@AnthonyFStevens @soren @CloudyMrs
Read their (head office) pronouncements. I know it is not really covered in the English press. I might also point at wee things such as Nandy’s approach to a ‘robust’ attitude to independence - in reference to Spain locking up Catalans and preventing them standing in parliament.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
Most people I know in #England couldn't care less about #ScottishIndependence either way. It's the ruling classes who still obsess about colonialism & power over others.
If #Scotland were to become independent under a #Tory government, you'd need to man your borders to stop the migration of half of #England moving north of the border.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Cyclist @soren again. What is the democratic mechanism for Scotland to become independent?
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Wen @soren How about you point to Labour policy that supports Devolution or respects the democratic choices of rhe people of Scotland? Good luck.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
Can you post a link to where this is states #Labour policy?
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
I agree with that 100%, hence why I said it's the ruling classes who obsess over colonialism, conquest & ruling over others.
Your average binge drinking, curry eating #English person, doesn't give a toss about anything outside of their City or town.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Wen @soren why should their opinion, or lack of opinion, be relevant?
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens What if the SNP won 56 out of 59 seats at Westminster and held a majority of seats in Holyrood parliament designed to prevent majorities from happening? Would that be enough? Clue. NO.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
Why don't the #SNP have a non-binding referendum as proof of a majority desire for independence?
You had a vote in 2014, but just like #Brexit in 2016, the #Tories will keep saying how many more referendums do you want?
HOWEVER, by that metric, we'd only have one General Election per century. It will take a huge wave of #Scottish people to make another independence vote happen any time soon.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Cyclist @soren You're really not getting it. No point in continuing this conversation. Have a nice night.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
That's no different to suggesting we rid ourselves of local councils, & allow Westminster to organise bin collections & filling in potholes.
There are always elements of devolution, & I see the #EU Parliament as representative of their countries, just as UK MP's represent their constituencies in Westminster.
Mrs Cloudy
@AnthonyFStevens @Cyclist @soren Nope. There is no discussion. It's been shut down. Westminster won't allow a referendum. The end. There is no democratic mechanism.
Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙
Again, a referendum. But again your detractors will point out how many referendums do you want?
You'll say Brexit's changed things, & that we have regular General Elections, so why can't you have regular Independence votes?
Does this sum up where #ScottishIndependence stands?
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