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Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Wednesday, 22-May-2024 22:12:28 JST Kit Rhett Aultman
- Cyberpunk Librarian
@CyberpunkLibrarian Even better is when the first response is the far more condescending "Why don't you just do Y?"
Buried somewhere in the thread will be the OP patiently explaining why Y isn't going to work for their needs, which everyone ignores.

In conversation about 8 months ago from signs.codes permalink
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  Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Wednesday, 22-May-2024 23:20:16 JST Kit Rhett Aultman
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  - Cyberpunk Librarian
  - webshinra
  @webshinra @CyberpunkLibrarian Oh, I do very much agree with what you've referenced here. I'm just blowing off steam over a specific and very dismissive turn of phrase -- "Why don't you just do <thing>?" The referenced solution is often the first and most obvious one, and which, in my experience, a thoughtful seeker-of-advice already knew about and couldn't do because it doesn't solve their predicament. And it's the use of the word "just" that really makes it frustrating.
  
  In conversation about 8 months ago permalink
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  webshinra (webshinra@pouet.chapril.org)'s status on Wednesday, 22-May-2024 23:20:18 JST webshinra
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  - Cyberpunk Librarian
  @roadriverrail @CyberpunkLibrarian Well from the other side, the X-Y problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem ) is very common, and coupled with the Dunning–Kruger effect from the questionner it can lead to frustration on both side.
  Sometime the one asking would need to change their approach to get their problem solved; and sometime the ones giving answers are excessively trying to fallback on know problems with well thought answers.
  Communication is hard.
  In conversation about 8 months ago permalink
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    XY problem
    
    The XY problem is a communication problem encountered in help desk, technical support, software engineering, or customer service situations where the question is about an end user's attempted solution (X) rather than the root problem itself (Y or Why?). The XY problem obscures the real issues and may even introduce secondary problems that lead to miscommunication, resource mismanagement, and sub-par solutions. The solution for the support personnel is to ask probing questions as to why the information is needed in order to identify the root problem Y and redirect the end user away from an unproductive path of inquiry. Terminology The term XY problem was implicitly coined by Eric S. Raymond in How To Ask Questions The Smart Way when he wrote "How can I use X to do Y?" in the "Questions Not To Ask" section: Q: How can I use X to do Y? A: If what you want is to do Y, you should ask that question without pre-supposing the use of a method that may not be appropriate. Questions of this form often indicate a person who is not merely ignorant about X, but confused...
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  Kit Rhett Aultman (roadriverrail@signs.codes)'s status on Thursday, 23-May-2024 02:04:12 JST Kit Rhett Aultman
  in reply to
  - Cyberpunk Librarian
  - webshinra
  @webshinra @CyberpunkLibrarian Ah, yes, if English is not a first language the nuances of "just" might have not been clear. In this context, "just" carries a meaning like "simply" or "merely", suggesting that the course of action suggested is a trivial thing. If asked in the right way, the question even denotes a remark about the person's intelligence.
  Questions like "Have you tried...?" or "What about doing...?" or "Is ... not a solution?" or...really, many others, promote actual dialog.
  
  In conversation about 8 months ago permalink
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  webshinra (webshinra@pouet.chapril.org)'s status on Thursday, 23-May-2024 02:04:15 JST webshinra
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  - Cyberpunk Librarian
  @roadriverrail @CyberpunkLibrarian I think in french when in doubt on how it would be received, I could be more precise with something like «I imagine it's not possible to just do Y ?»
  («j'imagine qu'il n'est pas possible de juste faire Y ?)
  
  In conversation about 8 months ago permalink
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  webshinra (webshinra@pouet.chapril.org)'s status on Thursday, 23-May-2024 02:04:17 JST webshinra
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  - Cyberpunk Librarian
  @roadriverrail @CyberpunkLibrarian I think I understand what you mean. English not being my native language, I can miss some nuances, but the french equivalent «juste» seems to behave the same way, with lots of different meaning given how precisely it's used and pronounced (thus in writting it's harder).
  If the person answering see an evident solution and don't get why it wouldn't be applicable, underlying the fact the solution is an evidence may be more polite than aggressive.
  
  In conversation about 8 months ago permalink

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