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   Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 15-Apr-2024 04:45:22 JST Paul Cantrell

   • Church of Jeff

   IIRC, there is good research work backing up this from @jeffowski: people who’ve been taken in by a con will cling desperately to the con rather than admit (to others and themselves) that they were conned. People are willing to pay a •very• high price to avoid shame.

   Rather than taking this only as a judgmental insult (however well deserved), I’m interested in the practical psycho-socio-political strategic implications for lifting our society out of this deep hole.
   https://mastodon.world/@jeffowski/112271264553686404

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 15-Apr-2024 04:55:06 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Benjohn

     @benjohn
     It is really, really hard to be watching something like that from the margins. I’m sorry.

   • Embed this notice
     Benjohn (benjohn@todon.nl)'s status on Monday, 15-Apr-2024 04:55:07 JST Benjohn

     in reply to

     • Church of Jeff

     @inthehands @jeffowski I’ve seen this happen. A friend was taken in by a romance con and lost some money over it. Then she lost the rest by refusing to accept the con.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 15-Apr-2024 04:58:30 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     The one bit of practical advice I remember about helping people who’ve been conned or drawn into a cult is ask questions and keep asking questions. Direct confrontation — “You’ve been conned! Stop it!” — will lead to doubling down in self-defense. But the gentle, relentless accumulation of doubts can make a real difference.

     What does this mean at a national scale?

   • Embed this notice
     Michael Dekker (dekk@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 15-Apr-2024 05:04:07 JST Michael Dekker

     in reply to

     @inthehands I don’t fully accept the premise that we have fallen into a hole. Compared to 30 or even 15 years ago, USians at large are more likely to believe that Black Lives Matter, that transgender people are human, and the same sex relationships should be honored and celebrated. Following the metaphor, we’re halfway out of the hole. Some are scared of what’s on the outside and seek out beliefs and leaders that promise to bring us back to where we were.

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     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 15-Apr-2024 05:35:28 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Michael Dekker

     @dekk
     Yeah, “deep hole” was underspecified. I should clarify: yes, there is no doubt that we’ve made enormous social progress; indeed, that progress is part of the fuel for Trumpism. By “deep hole,” I mean:

     - While there’s more visible, widespread acceptance now for e.g. trans rights, there’s •also• more visible, widespread acceptance for fascism.

     - I’d venture that people with extreme right-wing views are more able now than they were 20+ years ago to go w/o have those views challenged…

     1/2

   • Embed this notice
     Michael Dekker (dekk@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 15-Apr-2024 05:35:29 JST Michael Dekker

     in reply to

     @inthehands it’s not so much about being taken in by a con. It’s more that the only leaders left promising we can go back are the con artists.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Monday, 15-Apr-2024 05:38:54 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     • Michael Dekker

     @dekk …and even more importantly and more able to feel like their right-wing extremism is the norm.

     - Trump’s political career would have been dead 200x over — rape, fraud, affairs with porn stars, stealing state secrets, blackmailing allies, forcibly orphaning children, I mean HOLY SHIT — if he were any other person or it were any time in the past. This point is what I mean by “con.” This plus the previous two points is what I’m thinking of with “deep hole.”