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1. Embed this notice
   vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:19:37 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

   if anyone here is involved with pride orgs in germany please fucking obliterate hetzner thx

   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:19:35 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira imho that is an exaggeration. its one thing that authorities pushes hetzner to remove content and hetzner therefore a customer, everything under the cover of ToS 8.2 which everyone should have read in before and its a different one framing hetzner
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and Fediverse Contractor like this.
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     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:24:13 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira thats unknown to me but i assume there are since Cloudflare gave out personal informations like the ip of woem.men
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:24:14 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.cat where were authorities involved?

   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:24:43 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira and you should read ToS and the screenshots of ashten
     Fediverse Contractor likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:24:44 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.cat please read a law

   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:26:05 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:
     @mira i warned from such situation years ago, thats literally the reason why blob.cat's setup is like it is rn. It is a well known situation
   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:27:40 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira did you read the mails?
     The Cloudflare mail heavily implies that they dont care, dont want to be involved with, and they gave out informations...
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:27:41 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.cat yeah they forwarded it to the authorities but hetzner acted solely based on cloudflare's report?

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     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:52:35 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira Ok again:
     As far as i know, an IP Address and Addresses in general are protected under GDPR so they arent allowed to gave those Informations out to thirdparties who arent Authorities.
     Fact is Cloudflare gave them away, Fact is Hetzner has ToS 8.2 and they use their well known rule which one agrees in before with it, to force the deletion of content. Another fact is, that one concludes a contract with hetzner under these conditions.
     
     So yes, under this conditions i call you out on "if anyone here is involved with pride orgs in germany please fucking obliterate hetzner thx" because, as far as I know, this statement is a totally exaggerated attempt to cause as much damage as possible, whereby one's own morality is weighted higher than the applicable domestic law and possible consequences vis-à-vis authorities.
     
     If it turns out that there are no authorities at work, I still find such a reaction exaggerated because Hetzner has, as described in the mail, in my view given reasons which absolutely cannot be interpreted against minorities in any way.
     
     Subjectively speaking, I don't think that's great either. But now I would like to hear from you why this should be unethical and illegal. Preferably with evidence like I did.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 09:52:37 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.cat yes, that is not how the law works in europe

   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 10:06:50 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to

     • sn0w :ad:
     @sn0w @mira fair, but then i would count Cloudfalre releasing the personal Informations as illegal.
     Nevertheless, the abuse team at hetzner decided to enforce their well known ToS and I still consider that far from illegal. Hetzner's motive seems more credible to me than the defamation that they are deliberately targeting minorities
   • Embed this notice
     sn0w :ad: (sn0w@cofe.rocks)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 10:06:51 JST sn0w :ad:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:
     @Jain @mira
     > If it turns out that there are no authorities at work
     there most definitely aren't, and i heavily doubt info was given out to the complainer
     cloudflare just forwarded the abuse mail they got to the abuse-contact for the relevant IP adress (ie hetzner)
     you can see the cloudflare mail quoted at the bottom of the hetzner mail, and the hetzner mail starts with "we received a complaint from cloudflare.com"
     :blobcathug: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     sn0w :ad: (sn0w@cofe.rocks)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 10:12:42 JST sn0w :ad:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:
     @Jain @mira
     don't get me wrong, nothing illegal happened here at any point, by any party
     them overreacting like this is questionable and it could be debatable whether hosting at any provider with unclear clauses like theirs is a good idea
     but legally they are completely in the clear here
     :blobcathug: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 10:59:25 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira
     > since hetzner, unlike cloudflare, did not specify exactly what the issue was, parts of this paragraph other than the one on pornography could still hold legal ground if breached, let me know exactly how you think this was breached uwu
     Imho nothing, according to Cloudflare there is, so the final say has Hetzner and they obviously decided that they dont want content like this which is still within their legal options.
     
     > since there was no violation of german, eu, or international law, or tos from the side of Ashten, hetzner is in breach of contract by demanding the removal of any content
     I very much doupt that. It should be perfectly fine to remove any customer if they want, their ToS explicit says "This includes in particular, but is not limited to".
     
     > lmao who am i causing damage to lol?
     hetzner, and i am still of the opinion that it is unjustified
     
     > ... operating strictly within legal frameworks, which hetzner failed to do in this case.
     still disagree on that, and it looks like im not the only one
     
     > asking to remove content depicting two women kissing in a context that is permitted by all domestic, eu, and international laws, as well as tos, is discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation ...
     I consider the allegation of discrimination in this case, as already stated, to be exaggerated. I could well imagine that Hetzner itself or with the help of legal action will have to accept at some point that this content is okay. But if someone were to sue Hetzner on the basis of discrimination, there would be no chance. I am not aware of a single case, anywhere in the world, which has ended in a legally binding way in such a context with the result that it was discriminatory.
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 10:59:27 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.cat
     
     1. as you said, it was a breach of gdpr to share personally identifiable information, which ip addresses are (this is illegal to do even if there is actual illegal activity going on, you can not share gdpr protected data with anyone except the authorities UPON receiving a warrant/other OFFICIAL request to provide the information (i.e. even a police officer writing you an email is not an official request in most cases))
     
     2. there is no
     - pornographic content -> content that is intended for sexual arousal
     - pornographic content involving children -> same as the previous point but depicting individuals below the age of 18 (under german federal law, might differ in other countries)
     
     3. hetzner tos 8.2 copied directly from their tos site: "8.2. The Customer is obligated not to publish any content that infringes on the rights of third parties or otherwise violates applicable law. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, pornographic or obscene material, extremist content or content that offends common decency, gambling, material that could seriously endanger the morals of children or young people or violate the rights of third parties (copyrights, name rights, trademark rights and data protection rights). This also includes the publication of defamatory content, insults or disparagement of persons or groups of persons."
     as established since there is no pornographic content, especially none involving minors the part about pornography is not applicable in this case. since hetzner, unlike cloudflare, did not specify exactly what the issue was, parts of this paragraph other than the one on pornography could still hold legal ground if breached, let me know exactly how you think this was breached uwu
     
     4. since there was no violation of german, eu, or international law, or tos from the side of Ashten, hetzner is in breach of contract by demanding the removal of any content
     
     5. lmao who am i causing damage to lol?
     
     6. my own morality has been put aside so far you have no idea, i specifically mentioned pride as an organisation because they are very keen on operating strictly within legal frameworks, which hetzner failed to do in this case.
     
     7. asking to remove content depicting two women kissing in a context that is permitted by all domestic, eu, and international laws, as well as tos, is discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, and thus in addition of being a breach of contract, it is a violation of (not gonna list all the applicable law in the state of bavaria here, but there is a lot both on state, federal and international levels) numerous laws

   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:03:03 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:
     @mira i agree with all the non commented stuff btw
   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:06:50 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira You cant provide proof as well as i cant provide proof against it. You can describe the legal implication tho as well as i can tho. I pretty much told you the reasons why i doubt it but let me quote it again:
     > But if someone were to sue Hetzner on the basis of discrimination, there would be no chance. I am not aware of a single case, anywhere in the world, which has ended in a legally binding way in such a context with the result that it was discriminatory.
     I simply called you out for exaggeration, nothing more nothing less.
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:06:52 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.catyou ask me to provide proof
     i do my best to explain the legal implication of the situation
     you say you doubt it and disagree without explaining whywhat do you want from me then?

   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:07:20 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira why should i? that wasnt and isnt my goal
     Fediverse Contractor likes this.
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     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:07:21 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.cat sue me for defamation if you got such a problem with my take idc

   • Embed this notice
     Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:10:28 JST Fediverse Contractor

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:
     Can you pls link the emails?
   • Embed this notice
     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:11:35 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to

     • Fediverse Contractor
     @bot https://woem.men/notes/9r86xd69cu89052m
     Fediverse Contractor likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:12:21 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • Fediverse Contractor

     @bot@seal.cafe https://woem.men/notes/9r86xd69cu89052m

     Fediverse Contractor likes this.
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     :blobcathug: (jain@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:17:11 JST :blobcathug:

     in reply to
     @mira Even you should be aware that this generalization does not do match to that rather more complex situation in the slightest. We can agree to disagree and wait and see what happens. I see no reason for further discussion when you try to use such thought terminating clichés within a specific Conversation.
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:17:13 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.cat ok
     
     i made a post
     
     i think all corporations should be destroyed because capitalism is evil
     
     hetzner is no different
     
     i mentioned them because i don't like homophobic censorship
     
     no exaggeration here

   • Embed this notice
     Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:18:38 JST Fediverse Contractor

     in reply to
     I just want to know the truth.
   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:18:39 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • Fediverse Contractor

     @bot@seal.cafe i see the instance is down rn due to the relocation, i didn't save the emails so you can see them when it will be back up?

   • Embed this notice
     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:25:55 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • :blobcathug:

     @Jain@blob.cat ok i am cool with that~~

     :blobcathug: likes this.
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     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:38:12 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • Fediverse Contractor

     @bot@seal.cafe it is back up if you want to check

     Fediverse Contractor likes this.
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     vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie: (mira@froggie.gay)'s status on Sunday, 24-Mar-2024 11:38:13 JST vampkitten :v_enby: :froggie:

     in reply to

     • Fediverse Contractor

     @bot@seal.cafe i can tell you my recollection of what was in them if you want, but the instance should be back up soon too