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   SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 08-Mar-2024 20:22:31 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half)
   It's really weird how people fight over whether Hitler was a Christian. I get it, especially since one of the ways Christianity was subverted in the West was by authorities telling everyone that ol' Adolf was the devil incarnate, a pagan, an astrologer, etc. But ultimately it's very, very odd that people would get into this fight. Jimmy Carter sucked as a president, but he was also a deeply devoted Southern Baptist for most of his life: no one disparages the Baptists or supports them on account of Jimmy Carter. Yet for some reason, there are many people whose opinion of national socialism hinges on whether or not Hitler was a Christian!
   
   And the double standards irritate the snot out of me. The same people who want to claim a supposed paganism inherent to national socialism are typically admirers of the United States Constitution....which was drafted by a gaggle of deists, unitarians, skeptics and other weirdos. They refuse to see the discrepancy in their standards, because all they can think is muh-hitler-bad.
   
   I'm not a national socialist. I didn't decide to reject national socialism on account of some matter of religious faith (including the western civic religion). I disagree with its policies and how it does governance, that's all; I think there are better ways for a pro-White government to serve it's people, simple as. Whether or not Hitler was a staunch Roman Catholic or some weird neopagan new-ager doesn't matter to me one bit when considering the political system itself.
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     DM me cats :nv: (catlord@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 08-Mar-2024 20:29:05 JST DM me cats :nv:

     in reply to

     • Branman65?
     @SuperLutheran @branman65 It's a grug answer but that's basically the crux of the question lol. People like Hitler and want him to have believed as they do.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
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     SuperLutheran (kicky half) (superlutheran@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 08-Mar-2024 20:29:06 JST SuperLutheran (kicky half)

     in reply to

     • Branman65?
     @branman65 Nothing wrong with that.
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 08-Mar-2024 20:29:08 JST Branman65?

     in reply to
     @SuperLutheran I want Hitler to be Christian because I like the guy
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     Semilexic (epictittus@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 08-Mar-2024 22:58:19 JST Semilexic

     in reply to

     • ☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
     @KingOfWhiteAmerica @SuperLutheran I will level a critique at your hard line here. According to Orthodox tradition, the Orthodox church recognizes as "Christian" all who were baptized.
     
     There are theological disagreements, in some cases (roman catholic) bordering on heretical, in other cases (mormons) fully heretical, but all are considered Christian and the Orthodox church maintains a formal relationship with them.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
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     ☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 08-Mar-2024 22:58:20 JST ☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️

     in reply to
     @SuperLutheran Insofar as I affirm Traditional Orthodoxy, I've got no business asserting anything less than Traditional Orthodox Ecclesiology. And from that perspective, whether Hitler is "Christian" or not is of little more than historical-trivial significance. He is not - and never claimed to be - Orthodox; which indisputably puts him outside the Canonical Orthodox Catholic Church.
     
     He was baptized into Papal Latin Christianity, and realized in his adult life that - thanks to the Protestant Reformation - it would be impossible to unite Germany spiritually as a Catholic Kingdom.
     
     To solve this problem, he threw his immense political character behind "Positive Christianity"; which is essentially a pro-German ethnic national Ecumenism. Whether this was his Faith, or the Papism of his youth - or if he'd abandoned Christianity altogether, as some suggest - in no way does any evidence suggest that he was a member of the Body of Christ as understood in Traditional Orthodoxy.
     
     While I'm aware so hard-and-fast a line may cause some discomfort, it's intended entirely matter-of-factly; no hint of impugnment or condemnation attached. And, as a consequence of such clarity, Hitler's overarching role in the broad scope-and-span of world history and the Economy of Salvation is drawn into sharper focus than I've found otherwise.
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     ☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️ (kingofwhiteamerica@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 08-Mar-2024 23:00:40 JST ☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️

     in reply to

     • Semilexic
     @epictittus @SuperLutheran Sure, no reason to dispute that. But I’m adhering to the understanding that, independently of any of that, Adolf Hitler shows no evidence of having been ontologically united in Communion with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, as understood by the Traditional Orthodox.
     This, in spite of modern Ecumenist arguments coming from certain World Orthodox publications about the Latins, ie ”Branch Theory”, “two Lungs of Sister Churches” and the like.
     I’m not subscribing to any of those views, in this argument.
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     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 08-Mar-2024 23:00:40 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • Semilexic
     • ☦️KingOfWhiteAmerica☦️
     @KingOfWhiteAmerica @epictittus @SuperLutheran >Branch theory
     Those arguments have existed for a long time. Eastern churches reuniting in communion but maintaining Orthodoxy is a centuries old tradition.
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:06:02 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     • Deplorable Degenerate
     @Deplorable_Degenerate These kinds of theological disputes are certainly entertaining, but splitting hairs on them is ultimately of little import. For most people, how they conduct themselves is of much greater import than which church they belong to or their understanding of cosmology.
     
     There's this weird conceit that Catholics/Orthodox in particular have that not only do they get to decide what is and is not really scripture, but that their "tradition" gets to override it.
     
     @kf01 @SuperLutheran @SuperSnekFriend
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     Deplorable Degenerate (deplorable_degenerate@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:06:03 JST Deplorable Degenerate

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     I could make some exceptions. But they are always muddy and again always stem from having trouble understanding the trinity.
     
     I think Nestorians are about as heretical as you can get and still be saved.
     
     Maybe 'Arianism', but not Arianius himself. He studied the Bible and was clearly an intelligent guy. But the hovel peasants that heard him or his followers and went "okay that makes sense" I could see some form of mercy being given to.
     
     Wouldn't want to risk that though.
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     Deplorable Degenerate (deplorable_degenerate@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:06:04 JST Deplorable Degenerate

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     I am a really open minded guy. I think God is forgiving. If you misinterpret a few things He will probably forgive it.
     
     The "Jesus wasn't actually divine" crowd is a heresy too far though. It actually upsets me thinking about it, because I've met several who were pretty upstanding people, but denying your Messiah's very obvious and not at all subtle claims with some of the most batshit mental gymnastics you can find outside of judaism is absolute lunacy.
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     KushanaFan01 (kf01@breastmilk.club)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:06:04 JST KushanaFan01

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • Deplorable Degenerate
     @Deplorable_Degenerate @SuperLutheran @SuperSnekFriend Yeah denying the Divinity of Jesus or the existence of the Godhead (The Trinity as it is later termed) is instantly on the chopping block no matter how knowledgeable of the Bible and upstanding you apparently are. That and denying the total and complete saving power of the Gospel.
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     ?uper?nekFriend ? (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:06:05 JST ?uper?nekFriend ?

     in reply to

     • Deplorable Degenerate
     @Deplorable_Degenerate @SuperLutheran I agree. Don't worry.
     That's why I called Benjamin Franklin a Christian-like theist rather than an actual Christian. You'd be surprised that Franklin believed things like the Resurrection of both Christ and faithful, but that cannot save you if Christ isn't God.
     
     Thomas Kidd explains this in his book about Franklin's faith.
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     Deplorable Degenerate (deplorable_degenerate@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:06:06 JST Deplorable Degenerate

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     Not believing in Christ's divinity disqualifies you from being a Christian.
     
     Jehova's Witnesses aren't Christian.
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     ?uper?nekFriend ? (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:06:07 JST ?uper?nekFriend ?

     in reply to
     @SuperLutheran >which was drafted by a gaggle of deists, unitarians, skeptics and other weirdos
     Only Jefferson and a couple other guys. Franklin only had issues with Christ' divinity, but was more like a Christian-like theist than a deist.
     
     Most were Christian, even if they were misguided by classical liberal views.
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:36:35 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     • Deplorable Degenerate

     I'm a practicing Mormon, and I'm one by conversion as opposed to being born into it, so you don't need to tell me the distinctions between it and Orthodoxy/Catholicism. I'm not of the view that anybody is going to hell for having wacky cosmology, including those truly batshit cosmologies from the Nag Hammandi libraries or whatever.

     Personal conduct, in the context one is placed in, is much more meaningful in the current Mormon view, than membership in any religion or church. We aren't supposed to know for certain how things up there truly are. It's supposed to be a mystery. So we can speculate, and some of those good guesses about what's going on up there might lead to good choices down here, that's not truly what we're going to be judged on.

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     Deplorable Degenerate (deplorable_degenerate@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:36:36 JST Deplorable Degenerate

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     To be clear Arius believed God created Jesus and they were entirely seperate entities, taking the Son part very literally like Mormons do.
     
     It is marginally better, because Mormons teach that God/The Holy Spirit basically boned Mary where Arius taught that Jesus was his first creation and just was never mentioned for the whole of the Old Testament as a way to get around the "Before Abraham" thing.
     
     I think there's an upper limit to your cosmology being wrong but you'll still get to heaven and this is scrapping that ceiling.
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     Senator_Armstrong (senator_armstrong@seal.cafe)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:48:30 JST Senator_Armstrong

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     • Deplorable Degenerate
     @NEETzsche @kf01 @Deplorable_Degenerate @SuperLutheran @SuperSnekFriend Hitler's ideology didn't go far enough to beat global liberalism anyway, so arguing about how christian it is or isn't seems irrelevant.
     NEETzsche likes this.
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     Deplorable Degenerate (deplorable_degenerate@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 20:55:17 JST Deplorable Degenerate

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     I hope the best for you, and more or less agree though perhaps not as universally as you do (hence Nestorians yes, Mormons/Arianians unclear, Jehova's Witness/Muslims/Jews no)
     
     I hear conflicting reports on the God conceived Jesus with Mary thing, which is why I said God/Holy Spirit. But God physically coming down and fornicating with Mary is one of those things that alarms me.
     
     I am not Catholic or Orthodox, I grew up Baptist and have drifted in a Reformed and Lutheran direction as I've gotten older. Catholicism and Orthodoxy's doctrines on Mary also alarm me, as it often gets dangerously close to putting her on the same pedastal as God.
     
     But I also think that smearing the mother of God is a dangerous game. I see a lot of protestants doing it trying to counter what Catholics do and that shit can get vile.
     
     But to the point, if it says she was a virgin, she was a virgin.
     NEETzsche likes this.
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 21:07:10 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     • Deplorable Degenerate

     The Mariology wars don't impact me at all. I will admit I like to mock Catholics in particular by saying they worship Mary, since they basically do, but I also don't think they're going to hell for doing so.

     My current Church, LDS, says there will never be a second Great Apostasy but I just don't buy that. Churches are legitimate until they aren't, and it's literally cyclical. There are many ends, but only one End, and I highly doubt we're about to live through it. We're living through civilizational decline, but I don't have this self-centered delusion that the end of my world is the end of The World. In spite of this, I do think that the end of my world gives me license to treat my life like I live in the Latter Days, since this life is a charade anyway, and this is the role I was placed into, the chudfaced LSD-addled computer nerd who, in spite of being a sinner, is tasked with watching the World go from bad to worse and to withstand it as best as possible.

     So bearing in mind such a task, which Church facilitates that best? LDS, the institution on earth, does. The neo-Gnostic elements of Mormon deep doctrine are perfect for the 21st century, too. If you get over the fact that Joseph Smith went off the Nicene reservation you'll figure out fast that he had a lot to say, and a lot of counts, even 180 years after his death, and that's not going to go away just because he was a bad man who did bad things.

     But on topic: was Hitler a Christian? Probably not. Maybe. Who cares.

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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Saturday, 09-Mar-2024 21:08:54 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     • Senator_Armstrong
     • Deplorable Degenerate

     Hitler certainly didn't stop Jewish power. I think quibbling over Hitler's status as a Christian is some sperg shit. Seriously, who cares. I think we're on the same page there.

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     Senator_Armstrong (senator_armstrong@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 10-Mar-2024 02:09:41 JST Senator_Armstrong

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     • Deplorable Degenerate
     @NEETzsche @kf01 @Deplorable_Degenerate @SuperLutheran @SuperSnekFriend well he stopped it for maybe 10 years in Berlin but that's like a spark not a campfire. Clearly we need to try again with some improvements this time.
     NEETzsche likes this.
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     KushanaFan01 (kf01@breastmilk.club)'s status on Sunday, 10-Mar-2024 02:09:44 JST KushanaFan01

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • Senator_Armstrong
     • Deplorable Degenerate
     @NEETzsche @Deplorable_Degenerate @SuperLutheran @SuperSnekFriend @Senator_Armstrong
     It mostly stems from cringe Hitler worship that absolutely NEEDS Uncle A to be absolutely perfect within the eyes of the "worshipper". Also Hitler is a sort of legitimizer of views and opinions in modern RW spaces in the same vein ancient Nippon Kings tried to legitimize their titles through Chinese Emperors.
     If your opinion can be tacked on to Hitler, even to the point of shoehorning, it must be a valid opinion as if Hitler could never err in judgement or person.
     
     I posted something in the same vein as your point, if Hitler was Christian or not really doesn't affect the price of tea in China for me since he's not my end all be all.
     NEETzsche likes this.
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Sunday, 10-Mar-2024 02:17:25 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • ?uper?nekFriend ?
     • KushanaFan01
     • Senator_Armstrong
     • Deplorable Degenerate

     I've also seen it from leftists who think that Hitler being Christian invalidates Christianity in some way. It's basically the "Hitler drank water" argument. So it's a two way street, either trying to validate Christianity by associating it with Hitler or invalidate it by associating it with Hitler. Depending on which cringe opinion you have.