Cameron MacLeod
It’s popular to think use of social media by definition harms teens. But studies shows it’s not true. Per this link, there is no data to support this.
The head of Common Sense Media, which as a parent I used to think was a useful resource, is pushing falsehoods and gut feelings on this, in support of a dangerous California ballot initiative.
Where California goes on this, much of the western world follows. So worthwhile being aware of the facts on this.
h/t @mmasnick
Mike Masnick ✅
@erosalie @c_9 I discuss some of those in the post, but most of the research shows no *causal* link, and the few that show correlational links have evidence that the correlation is the other way (i.e., those facing other problems end up spending more time on social media...).
None of that's to say we shouldn't look for ways to help those in need, but to challenge the premise that social media is INHERENTLY harmful to kids, which is the theory behind the initiative.
E Rosalie
I don't know about the ballot initiative or Common Sense Media, but plenty of studies suggest or show online harms associated with adolescent use of social media. Can you share any specific sources that lead you to believe "no data support this"?
Pediatrics, psychiatry, and public health are among the fields that have contributed to research. Then, there's also the platform's own research, which reported that use was associated with depression, anxiety, and a distorted view of oneself.
A good overview of the types of harms found in both internal and external research can be found here Case Study on Online Youth Harms – Project Daisy
Many of these harms are not unique to social media, just as burns aren't exclusive to car accidents. The claim there's no evidence of harm, though, is difficult to understand.
The harms are independent of how we address it and whether people overreact, so I want to make that distinction.
Balt, E., Mérelle, S., Robinson, J. et al. Social media use of adolescents who died by suicide: lessons from a psychological autopsy study. Child Adolesc Psychiatry Ment Health 17, 48 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1186/s13034-023-00597-9
Bozzola E, Spina G, Agostiniani R, Barni S, Russo R, Scarpato E, Di Mauro A, Di Stefano AV, Caruso C, Corsello G, Staiano A. The Use of Social Media in Children and Adolescents: Scoping Review on the Potential Risks. Int J Environ Res Public Health. 2022 Aug 12;19(16):9960. doi: 10.3390/ijerph19169960.
Finkelhor D, Turner H, Colburn D. Prevalence of Online Sexual Offenses Against Children in the US. JAMA Netw Open. 2022 Oct 3;5(10):e2234471. doi: 10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2022.34471.
Janice, H. T. (2023). US Surgeon General warns about excessive social media use by young people. BMJ: British Medical Journal (Online), 381 doi:https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.p1211
Li, E. Rosalie. 2023. “Penny for Their Harm.” InfoEpi Lab, December. https://infoepi.org/posts/2023/12/20-penny-for-their-harm.
Riehm KE, Feder KA, Tormohlen KN, et al. Associations Between Time Spent Using Social Media and Internalizing and Externalizing Problems Among US Youth. JAMA Psychiatry. 2019;76(12):1266–1273. doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2019.2325
Franchina, V., Vanden Abeele, M., van Rooij, A. J., Lo Coco, G., & De Marez, L. (2018). Fear of missing out as a predictor of problematic social media use and phubbing behavior among Flemish adolescents. International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, 15(10), 2319.
Twenge, J. M., Haidt, J., Lozano, J., & Cummins, K. M. (2022). Specification curve analysis shows that social media use is linked to poor mental health, especially among girls. Acta Psychologica, 224(103512), 103512.
Vincente-Benito, I. (2023). Influence of social media use on body image and well-being among adolescents and young adults: A systematic review. Journal of Psychosocial Nursing & Mental Health Services, 61(12), 11-18. doi:https://doi.org/10.3928/02793695-20230524-02
Wilksch, S. M., O’Shea, A., Ho, P., Byrne, S., & Wade, T. D. (2020). The relationship between social media use and disordered eating in young adolescents. The International Journal of Eating Disorders, 53(1), 96–106.
Mike Masnick ✅
@ProfT @erosalie @c_9 i mean, we heard the same thing about women's magazines in the 80s/90s.
Did we ban those?
"Strong regulation" is literally regulation of speech, and it's being done in completely nonsensical ways.
You're a teacher: TEACH KIDS to have better media literacy and understanding.
ProfT
@mmasnick @erosalie @c_9 this argument reminds me of smokers- every one had one grandfather who smoked a pack a day and lived to be 90. Social media has profit as a no. 1 priority. While there is nothing wrong with that, if there isn’t strong regulation in play users get the short end of the stick. I’m a high school teacher - kids low self confidence is a huge problem, becaused they are surrounded by filtered images.
Mike Masnick ✅
@Noelwalling @c_9 this is false. Old twitter worked closely with researchers. Meta has regularly worked with researchers.
Part of the problem is that the media then misrepresents those studies and leads people like you to claim that they're trying to stifle things.
Noel Walling
@c_9 @mmasnick Has it not been proven because every social media company has been hostile to data scientists intending to study them for that potential harm? Like so hostile that they acquire companies that produce data, then shutter them?
Mike Masnick ✅
@Jamesboswell @c_9 why don't legislators have the benefit of waiting for science? I mean, the science is kinda there already.
What you're really saying is you don't like what the science says so you want legislators to ignore it?
Boswell
@c_9 @mmasnick i get that, but legislators don't always have the benefit of waiting for science.
If it seems/feels bad then do something reasonable to stop it. Imo this proposed legislation is bollocks, and yes for the severity of their solution I suppose it is only reasonable that we ask them to show how they can prove harm
Cameron MacLeod
@Jamesboswell @mmasnick “bullied to death *by* social media” is not fact, that’s the point. We don’t have causal data on this. We have some correlations, sometimes, and sometimes they’re reversed as discussed in the post. Of course some teens have had bad outcomes and we can find anecdotes about why some adults *think* it happened. But that’s different from facts or causal data.
I agree nonstop flood of filtered images feels like a harmful thing. But feels like is not science.
Boswell
The initiative is a totally shit solution. However, it is harmful in my view
One of the studies there actually says a 3rd of teenage girls said the negatives outweigh positives on body image issues. So what defines unharmful? As long as less than 50% aren't harmed?
Also, isn't it fact that kids have been groomed or bullied to death by social media? It's not very responsible to say "social media isnt harmful" when there are parents/kids who have gone through that.
Mike Masnick ✅
@tdietterich @c_9 there is not. but the lack of evidence, despite many, many, many people looking for it, suggests that we should take a cautious approach, one that is targeted towards ACTUAL harms that can be documented. Not moral panics about generalized harms.
tdietterich
@c_9 @mmasnick Is there data to support any other hypothesis? Lack of data is not evidence against a claim.
Mike Masnick ✅
@Noelwalling @c_9 FWIW, it is simply false (and silly) to claim that they "have no incentive to change." The companies have been beaten up repeatedly in the media and yelled at. Advertisers have dropped them.
They have LOTS of incentives to change, and have done so.
There's a reason they have entire "trust & safety" teams, and it's not because the EU told them to.
Noel Walling
@c_9 @mmasnick without any threat to their status quo, these companies have no incentive to change. Look at what happens when the threat of potential litigation (aka: consequences for bad behavior) occurs: https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24030571/meta-facebook-instagram-child-safety-dsa-online-safety-act
The US government is too paralyzed by polarization to effectively solve problems like this for now, so the only alternative is for individuals to attempt to cause enough economic friction that it’s in their best interest to curb their baser instincts. 🤷🏼♂️
Cameron MacLeod
@Noelwalling @mmasnick If we were only talking about the reaction of social media companies, definitely. Independent research is at the link, and I totally agree that actual data and research is needed, not just gut feels.
Noel Walling
@c_9 @mmasnick Right, but this is akin to the gun lobby actively preventing research on gun violence, and then claiming that guns don’t cause an increase in violence.
As a game developer who lived through the whole moral panic surrounding violence in video games, this is a different beast. The scale of social media makes it very difficult to ascertain whether it’s a net good or bad, or whether regulation can improve things if the big social media platforms won’t open their data to researchers.
Cameron MacLeod
@Noelwalling @mmasnick That is discussed in the linked post, and no it has not been “proven”. I agree they are often hostile to being studied and that’s bad, but that’s different from proven. Capitalism is a big factor behind many of the problems and the hostility for sure.
Mike Masnick ✅
@ProfT @erosalie @c_9 yes, and we've seen how those "very clear limits on freedom of speech" are regularly abused to silence the at risk and marginalized. I'd rather we don't do that here.
ProfT
@mmasnick @erosalie @c_9 yeah, that’s the problem- I’m not good enough to do it. I’m not strong enough to fight FB, IG, Snap, influencers, celebrities, corrupt politicians. God knows I try and fail each and every day.
There are very liberal democratic countries that have very clear limits on freedom of speech (Germany, Scandinavia...). Regulation is not perfect but is necessary. Because you can do as much harm with words as with guns.
Mike Masnick ✅
@Jamesboswell @c_9 lots of people? Because many of those regulations will (1) lead to marginalized / at-risk kids having fewer places to go online to get help and (2) be abused to silence and further harm those already at risk.
It's not like we don't have decades of history and examples of this.
Boswell
@mmasnick @c_9 Who is harmed from a tiny bit of regulation to try to reduce the chance of kids getting bullied or groomed on social? Or to reduce the illegal voting interference while they're at it
Boswell
@mmasnick @c_9 more like i agree that legislators shouldn't make a ridiculous knee jerk call, especially if the science isn't there, but sometimes a bit of regulation isn't a bad thing, and we do not have the benefit of science in every example
the example i mentioned before were vapes. Shops are banned from selling them to kids in the UK (not that it stops them puffing away like crazy). The science isn't yet massively clear on the harm caused. Would you be against harsher regulation?
Mike Masnick ✅
@Noelwalling @c_9 No, I covered those scenarios as well and called out Meta for bad behavior. But the company does have a history of working with researchers as well, including just recently.
Look, I'm not one to ever defend Meta about anything, but I hate the nonsense lie that the company has no incentives at all to be better. It's just kneejerk nonsense.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/11/21/1083760/meta-transparency-research-database-nick-clegg/
Noel Walling
@mmasnick @c_9 Old Twitter doesn’t exist. And you’re telling me this hasn’t been happening?
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/13/22623354/facebook-instagram-algorithm-watch-research-legal-threat
Just curious. I mean are you telling me the Verge misreported all of this?
GNU social JP is a social network, courtesy of GNU social JP管理人. It runs on GNU social, version 2.0.2-dev, available under the GNU Affero General Public License.
All GNU social JP content and data are available under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license.