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1. Embed this notice
   Dushman (dushman@den.raccoon.quest)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 20:58:10 JST Dushman

   And that's a bad thing?

   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Lina Inver?e (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 20:58:09 JST Lina Inver?e

     in reply to
     @dushman wait a minute...
     didnt you or meso already talk about this
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     kaia (kaia@brotka.st)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 21:00:22 JST kaia

     in reply to
     @dushman
     It is easier to criticize than to correct our past errors.
     
     Livy
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 21:00:44 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @dushman the economist is a factory of bad takes. they also this week were complaining that people not wanting endless migrant swarms were hurting globalism.
     Sexy Moon and kaia like this.
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     Dushman (dushman@den.raccoon.quest)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 21:04:13 JST Dushman

     in reply to

     • kaia

     @kaia@brotka.st
     They were definitely forced to purse science with the barrel of a gun

     kaia likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 21:10:11 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @dushman the ussr is one of those things that when you read about you have to temper all the good ideas with the reminder they did some extremely dumb shit :blobcatthonking:
   • Embed this notice
     Dushman (dushman@den.raccoon.quest)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 21:10:12 JST Dushman

     in reply to

     • iced depresso

     @icedquinn@blob.cat he was right

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 22:21:24 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     @dushman @kaia Job choice was restricted using Gosplan's setting of what jobs were available, the schools controlling admission and career track based on government quotas (including gender quotas), and jobs requiring credentials that you only got in your coerced career track.
     kaia likes this.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 22:28:26 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika
     @Hyolobrika @kaia @dushman on paper you had the right to change careers but the job market and schooling was not a free market and every part of it was set by government need.
   • Embed this notice
     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 22:28:29 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     Do either of you know any (translations of) primary sources so I can read more?
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     lainy (lain@lain.com)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Jan-2024 22:46:03 JST lainy

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika
     @Hyolobrika @kaia @Moon maybe not a primary source, but anna funder's 'stasiland' is about interviews she did with several people who were for one reason or other identified as 'dissenters' in socialist east germany, including being denied certain career choices, being thrown out of universities etc.
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 09:17:06 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika
     • Moffin'tosh
     @moffintosh @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika you have been brain damaged by ideology.
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 09:17:07 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika

     @Moon @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika As opposed to people who you didn't even elect👀

   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 10:36:41 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika

     @Moon @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika Not an answer👀

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 10:36:41 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika
     • Moffin'tosh
     @moffintosh @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika I am very frustrated because it feels like you don't understand that normal human activity creates needs that have to be serviced and that's where most jobs come from, even in a retarded system like the USA you can only pervert that so far using money printing and it doesn't even come close to just a committee literally deciding "there will be x number of each job this year"
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:, kaia and feld like this.
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     Hyolobrika (hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 10:43:59 JST Hyolobrika

     in reply to

     • ??? 妛彁 :xf_nyxsigil: :xf_nyxdisapproving:
     I don't call forcing someone to do something (if indeed they did that) "giving them opportunities".
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Dushman (dushman@den.raccoon.quest)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 10:44:00 JST Dushman

     in reply to

     • ??? 妛彁 :xf_nyxsigil: :xf_nyxdisapproving:

     @nyx@social.xenofem.me
     Communism checks notes gave women educational opportunities and that's le bad or something

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     ??? 妛彁 :xf_nyxsigil: :xf_nyxdisapproving: (nyx@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 10:44:01 JST ??? 妛彁 :xf_nyxsigil: :xf_nyxdisapproving:

     in reply to
     @dushman victims of communism: educated women with successful careers in STEM
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 20:04:54 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika
     • Moffin'tosh
     @moffintosh @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika businesses fail all the time under capitalism because the business wasn't needed but at least you can try and find out, you weren't just summarily rejected by a bureaucrat who allocated the number of florists
     NEETzsche likes this.
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     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 20:04:55 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika

     @Moon @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika You still get a similar effect though. One doesn't really decide which kind of jobs are available, their quantity and (much less) their conditions.

     > normal human activity creates needs that have to be serviced and that's where most jobs come from

     So it does under any system. I'm only really pointing out that crapitalism isn't better than a socialist planned economy in this aspect, just because the job planning is spread over many industries.

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 20:50:25 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika
     • Moffin'tosh
     @moffintosh @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika you are being "coerced" by people with a sense of self interest and volition to work with you or not. it's pragmatic and natural not ideological and imposed. not even saying it works better (game theory demonstrates it does in many but not all cases) but USSR's system was overtly coercive not "I am required to consume food and food's not given to me free" coercive.
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 20:50:26 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika

     @Moon @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika You can? With what money?
     Assuming you're searching for employment, you can still be rejected by any buisness owner who allocated N employees for it's buisness instead of a bureaucrat.
     Assuming you want to start your own shop, you will need start up capital, which can be negated by a banker who allocated only a limited number of investiments with a certain risk, instead of a bureaucrat.

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 21:36:56 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika
     • Moffin'tosh
     @moffintosh @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika because planned economies can only coerce people not reality. I'll give the USSR credit for this, they wouldn't put someone in a nuclear technician job that was so incompetent that they'd get everyone killed, Western democracies are so brain damaged by ideology that they will fill those jobs with warm bodies to meet a demographics quota. precisely because their self interest, personally advancing in a system, becomes damaging when combined with coercive government power
     
     as I said nobody put a gun to your head and said become a physicist. the government just set how many jobs there were and controlled every step of getting a job to meet economic plan goals. I am not sure why you're so resistant to this, normally communists just say it is better for everyone to do it that way.
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 21:36:57 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika

     @Moon @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika Not to mention that working for a boss in imposed in practice. Aside from the fact that one who doesn't work starves, our current arrangemnt isn't the norm, as people used to live as pesants in villages, with commonly held land that in some cased was periodically redistributed among the pesants.
     Getting a job for a wage was imposed on the majority of humanity via dispossession. (See the Enclosures movement)
     (Cont)

   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 21:36:57 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika

     @Moon @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika
     > but USSR's system was overtly coercive
     If the USSR job allocation was so much more coercive than the one of the capitalist west, then why did they have a shortage of nuclear technicians and physicists?
     Because people being forced into jobs at a gunpoint is a meme.

   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 21:36:59 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika

     @Moon @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika
     > you are being "coerced" by people with a sense of self interest and volition to work with you or not. it's pragmatic and natural not ideological and imposed.
     You seem to suppose public services are unpragmatic and innatural, while the private property arrangement that we have now was barely diffused until 200 years ago.
     (Cont)

   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 21:46:24 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika
     • Moffin'tosh
     @moffintosh @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika far less
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Thursday, 04-Jan-2024 21:46:25 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • kaia
     • Hyolobrika

     @Moon @kaia @dushman @Hyolobrika
     > I am not sure why you're so resistant to this

     Dude, all I'm saying is that crapitalism is also coercive