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1. Embed this notice
   Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 22:25:54 JST Sexy Moon
   ~100% of the traffic on my test federated blog is Delete activities from mastodon.social.
   • , clacke and ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 22:28:24 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to
     I don't even know how mastodon.social found it, I never tagged any users there.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 22:30:15 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     • Senator_Armstrong
     @Senator_Armstrong @Zerglingman it's because mastodon doesn't keep track of who it sent any posts to, so when someone deletes a post it just shotguns delete activities to every server it knows about
   • Embed this notice
     Senator_Armstrong (senator_armstrong@seal.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 22:30:20 JST Senator_Armstrong

     in reply to

     • Machismo
     don't really see the point of broadcasting internal deletes
   • Embed this notice
     Machismo (zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 22:30:21 JST Machismo

     in reply to
     @Moon Mastodongs do it again
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 22:52:21 JST feld

     in reply to
     @Moon the federated deletes situation is really untenable. I am wondering what we could possibly do to resolve it... it's not scalable at all.
     
     I almost think we should retire federated deletes completely and let other servers try to fetch an update for a post on demand when it's accessed but limited to once every 30 mins or so, and if you get a 410 you delete it locally as well.
     
     The deletes are going to crush anyone trying to run a small service that can federate
     Sexy Moon and clacke like this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 23:03:04 JST feld

     in reply to

     • feld
     @Moon even a delete log/feed that other servers refresh once every few minutes. Using something like SSE they can keep their place and resume the feed from last known good position. The feed should not keep data older than a week so any server offline for a long time may miss deletes.
     
     This would scale 100% better and if a user has been deleted the delete is ignored. User deletes would be the only federated deletes, or maybe not at all if this log could be used?
     Sexy Moon and clacke like this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 23:05:22 JST feld

     in reply to

     • feld
     @Moon this would guarantee that only the servers that want the deletes get them and the load on the entire network would drop significantly.
     
     I would love to see a PoC for this.
     Sexy Moon and clacke like this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 23:07:53 JST feld

     in reply to

     • feld
     @Moon I've also considered the possibility of making federated activities delayed by a couple minutes so most edits/deletes can be done before anything has been successfully federated. At least in my usage I tend to quickly notice errors and correct them right after posting 😆
     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 23:25:06 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • feld

     @feld @Moon This discussion the other week led me to learning how to do this in Outlook and it saved me trouble multiple times per week in the weeks that followed.

     My Outlook at work is now waiting one minute in the outbox before sending something I told it to send. Saves me from mostly "oops forgot to add/remove people in Cc", but also from "oops that was *that* email that was only half-written because I was on a side quest".

     Sexy Moon likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 23:33:46 JST feld

     in reply to

     • clacke
     @clacke Maybe we just need to make an Outbox feature. I considered server-side drafts, but drafts should be a client thing.
     
     Here's my "outbox" feature idea:
     
     The outbox is collected e.g., 60 seconds after you make a post. When you make the post it displays in your timeline feed just like you sent it. But it has metadata that would allow clients to show an icon that it hasn't actually federated yet. If you edit or delete it, the server changes it before it's actually federated. Everything I'm explaining could work without any clients needing to be aware the feature exists.
     
     This alone would probably cut down on a significant amount of "delete" activities in the fediverse.
     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 23:38:33 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • feld
     • clacke
     @feld @clacke dialup fedi, phone in at midnight to send all accumulated shitposts.
     feld and clacke like this.
   • Embed this notice
     :blank: (i@declin.eu)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 23:48:29 JST :blank:

     in reply to

     • feld
     @feld @Moon an instance wide #public outbox would be great too, long polling federation doesn't have to suck when it's not 20 activities per request times all the users on a server
     Sexy Moon and feld like this.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Sunday, 31-Dec-2023 23:52:29 JST feld

     in reply to

     • :blank:
     @i @Moon so there is already an outbox in the ActivityPub spec. But I don't know if Pleroma/Mastodon etc actually uses it. We don't have any code to periodically poll an outbox AFAIK. I'll look into that today.
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 01-Jan-2024 00:00:44 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • feld
     • :blank:
     @feld @i I assume mastodon won’t because of scraping concerns or unusable because of api rate limiting
   • Embed this notice
     Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Monday, 01-Jan-2024 04:09:43 JST Alex Gleason

     in reply to

     • feld
     @feld @Moon The solution is way simpler than this. Soft delete. The reason deletes destroy performance is because of the million indexes on objects. Just add a "deleted_at" column to objects, and query it out in selects. You can batch delete them with cron later. This is what Mastodon does in modern versions and it's why they aren't affected by this problem.
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Monday, 01-Jan-2024 04:19:43 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     @alex @Moon you should never federate deletes because there's no way to know every server that has a copy of the activity so you have to spam every server you have federated with and pray it worked. It's a lot of spam on the network
   • Embed this notice
     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 01-Jan-2024 04:39:29 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • Hoss Delgado
     @Hoss You can get stuff off the internet if you’re rich I guess. Years ago I remember there was this Australian swimsuit model. Someone hacked her computer and found pictures of her at a bunch of orgies and dumped them online. I don’t think they’re online anymore she paid some service and now they’re gone. No idea how.
   • Embed this notice
     Hoss Delgado (hoss@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Monday, 01-Jan-2024 04:39:30 JST Hoss Delgado

     in reply to

     • Alex Gleason
     • feld
     All this nonsense to placate people who were never taught rule 1 of the Internet: What you post on it publicly remains there forever.
   • Embed this notice
     Hoss Delgado (hoss@shitpost.cloud)'s status on Monday, 01-Jan-2024 04:43:24 JST Hoss Delgado

     in reply to
     >You can get stuff off the internet if you’re rich I guess.
     Helps if your family has institutional connections too, ain't that right @taylorlorenz?
     Sexy Moon likes this.