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1. Embed this notice
   ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:12:46 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

   • Moffin'tosh
   Aren't you ignoring withholdings?
   
   The IRS is the biggest wage thief. It even requires the employers to steal on their behalf.
   
   A self-employed person could simply not pay payroll taxes for example, and have use of that money until they decided to pay, if at all, a W-2 cannot avoid it.
   
   Similarly, a W-2 can only avoid income tax withholding if they had no tax liability in the previous year and no expectation of such a liability in the current year. Again, a self-employed person could simply not pay the tax, including via quarterlies, and have use of the money.
   
   Tl;dr you're a clown for looking at the employer and not your government. 🤡
   • Embed this notice
     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:19:13 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh
     You've also make the mistake of assuming that the employer would pay more if every violation were avoided. Most likely, wages would just be adjusted to account for the cost of labor. Basically, you're inventing money ex nihilo by using a static model to represent a dynamic system.
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:20:13 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     @Humpleupagus
     > MF thinks the state is an autonomous actor

   • Embed this notice
     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:20:13 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh
     Then all people are autonomous actors. It's turtles all the way down. Build your own business. 🤷♂️
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:26:18 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     @Humpleupagus
     > unpaid work is fine akshually cuz the employers would just pay them less.

   • Embed this notice
     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:26:18 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh
     It's not unpaid. That's your mistake. You fail to grasp the dynamics of economic systems. Value will adjust if all transgressions are avoided. It will move downward because the same money supply will have to buy more labor. If labor is measured in hours, this means hourlies will decrease, but the employee will get more hours of pay. The net benefit to the employee will be zero.
   • Embed this notice
     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:31:16 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh
     What I want you to do is show me where the employee transfered $500 of lost overtime to the employer, and don't point to a statute, contract, or the intrinsic value of labor. Show me the "money" the was stolen. You can't.
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:31:17 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     @Humpleupagus
     > I rent a commodity for 8 hours, but I actually use it for 10. This is fair because if I didn't the market price would adjust, lowering the price per hour

   • Embed this notice
     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:36:37 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
     • Moffin'tosh
     And regarding your example, the market value would include the transgression. I don't know how better to explain it. Maybe xeno could.
     
     @Xenophon
   • Embed this notice
     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:37:18 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh
     It wasn't surplus. The value of the labor was fully paid. You suck at economics.
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:37:19 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     @Humpleupagus It was stolen because during those unpaid hours the employee still produced surplus for the bouj. Simple as.
     Labour power is rented by the hour, paid with a fraction of the exchange value of the output it makes.
     Not paying this labour-power while still appropriating it's output is stealing

   • Embed this notice
     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:41:00 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • Moffin'tosh
     You assume that equity does not have a labor component. Most businesses are owned by the people who operate them. They usually register as s-corps or llcs or partnerships and all equity is taxed as income, i.e. earnings from labor. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about
   • Embed this notice
     Moffin'tosh (moffintosh@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Dec-2023 19:41:01 JST Moffin'tosh

     in reply to

     @Humpleupagus It is surplus, or else there would be no profit