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1. Embed this notice
   Preskton ?⚡? (esk@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 05:11:06 JST Preskton ?⚡?

   • Thomas 🔭🕹️

   @thomasfuchs "but if we don't host the Nazis who will?? 🥺 think about all those Nazis who would have to run their own fringe servers that would be hard to discover!" ~ probably them

   • Embed this notice
     iAmAnEngarneer (engarneering@floss.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 05:12:16 JST iAmAnEngarneer

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs This is an insane take. They're not the ACLU defending political speech from the government, they're platforming NAZIs. That is some crazy-crazy techbro brainworms.

   • Embed this notice
     Robert J. Berger (rberger@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 07:13:58 JST Robert J. Berger

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • C.S.Strowbridge

     @thomasfuchs @csstrowbridge I just canceled all my paid subscriptions leaving a note for each author saying why

   • Embed this notice
     Th𝟘m (th0m@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 08:32:09 JST Th𝟘m

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs Maybe it's better to say they don't want to stop Nazis from financing them through commissions

   • Embed this notice
     Thumb One (thumbone@aus.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 09:32:49 JST Thumb One

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs

     Up front, I neither read, nor write on substack (I spend more time with dev.to which is just my particular bent).

     But:

     1) As a neutral bystander, I'm with Hamish on the censorship front, though there are of course always limits. I will not ever, however, draw my limits on the basis of banal labels like Nazi or WTF you like smearing other people with but on slightly more objective criteria like actually calls to violence. Any publication with that content needs to be pulled down fast. As long as we're civil I don't right care what your views you, it's a dangerous thing to try and start deciding on the basis of those who should be able to stand on a given (virtual) soapbox and efforts to do so cause as much trouble as they purport to solve (we could apply the pathetically inadequate label "Nazi" to them - Godwin would feel vindicated)

     2) When I read this: https://thehypothesis.substack.com/p/heres-why-substacks-scam-worked-so
     my main concern is indeed the lack of transparency. If they are pumping money into Pro writers, I would like them to be transparent about who is getting up front money and who isn't on their platform. Any other venture I know would market that as a badge of honour, the Pro writers could have a big badge on their page for example.

     3) Comparisons with nudity have some merit indeed, and alas we have a way to go there given most of these platforms are US based - easily one of the most prudish and conservative of western cultures alas. There is a line to draw (explicit pornography) but nudity itself could and should well be normalised (specifically to counter the effect that its suppression only serves to are in no way endangered sexualise it). Children are in no way endangered by nudity. They are endagered by the blatant sexualisation of everything. So I'd concur that substack (or any other service) if it preaches and wants to stand against censorship can actually perform consistently and well in this space by permitting casual nudity.

     The problem of course always emerges with curation and where the lines are drawn, as they should be in both the arena of calls to violence and the endless sexualisation of everything. Such curation tends to be a) expensive and b) inescapably subjective, and there is no clear, unambiguous line to hold.

   • Embed this notice
     Stephanie Moore (stephaniemoore@mastodon.online)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 11:04:25 JST Stephanie Moore

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs thing is, shame, social isolation, and economic devaluation DO work. It may not change minds, but it does make it socially unacceptable in public spheres. These tech guys really don’t understand psychology, society, or much else.

   • Embed this notice
     Maddie (NEW! FUNKY MODE!) :verifiedtrans: (mjdxp@0w0.is)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 11:17:51 JST Maddie (NEW! FUNKY MODE!) :verifiedtrans:

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     @thomasfuchs how tf does deplatforming nazis make things worse for everyone else?
   • Embed this notice
     Mike McCue (mike@flipboard.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 11:31:33 JST Mike McCue

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs Yikes. Nazis should never be platformed or magnified. Ever. It still amazes me that seemingly smart people equivocate about this.

   • Embed this notice
     Mike McCue (mike@flipboard.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 11:35:16 JST Mike McCue

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs It's worse than that I think. He actually believes his argument.

   • Embed this notice
     Mike McCue (mike@flipboard.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 11:36:20 JST Mike McCue

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs lol

   • Embed this notice
     Court Cantrell prefers not to (courtcan@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 12:22:42 JST Court Cantrell prefers not to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs Amish needs to understand that -- as someone else once said -- if you let one "peaceful" Nazi drink at your bar, eventually they will bring a "peaceful" Nazi friend, and so on and so forth until suddenly what you have is a Nazi bar and it's no longer peaceful.

   • Embed this notice
     Court Cantrell prefers not to (courtcan@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 12:23:30 JST Court Cantrell prefers not to

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs Edited to correct "Amish" to "Hamish."

     I'm pretty sure the Amish know not to let Nazis hang out at the bar.

   • Embed this notice
     Darnell Clayton :verified: (darnell@one.darnell.one)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 12:52:43 JST Darnell Clayton :verified:

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️

     @thomasfuchs Yeah, I do not understand #Substack’s “we do not censor” position at all. Well, I do (it’s about money) as they allow Nazi’s but censor porn, the latter which they do to avoid being deplatformed by #Apple (the latter removed #Tumblr years ago due to porn).

     So maybe instead of pressuring authors, we should contact Apple, who has very little tolerance for companies favoring Nazis.

   • Embed this notice
     Mike McCue (mike@flipboard.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 15:16:43 JST Mike McCue

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Joel Falcou, Ph. D

     @joel_falcou @thomasfuchs I know for a fact that they are quite intelligent. And that makes this an even bigger problem.

   • Embed this notice
     Joel Falcou, Ph. D (joel_falcou@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 15:16:45 JST Joel Falcou, Ph. D

     in reply to

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • Mike McCue

     @mike @thomasfuchs your mistake is thinking those techbro are intelligent.

   • Embed this notice
     tamas 🦀 (tamas@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 22-Dec-2023 17:31:57 JST tamas 🦀

     • Thomas 🔭🕹️
     • sbi

     @thomasfuchs @sbi Nilay Patel’s interview with the CEO is a sight to behold. Apparently he didn’t change his stance, even though he was very embarrased https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/24/23696530/substack-notes-moderation-bigotry-chris-best