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Re: smart stuff
I have run into a number of conversations where it becomes clear that to some folks, they really don't give a crap about what would happen if they need someone else to take over their house/thing/whatever.
As an example: people who have driven Teslas and then drive a Hyundai EV are finding it infuriating that you have to tell the car every time you get in it that you want it to engage one-pedal driving. It will not stay on.
I actually think that makes perfect sense.
Mrs Cloudy
@TechConnectify normal is relative. For me, normal has three pedals.
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If for whatever reason I need someone else to drive my car, whether that be in an emergency, to help me out, or even like valet parking if I have to do that somewhere, I would rather it behave like a normal car.
I don't think it's much of an ask for me to have to squeeze the left paddle every time I turn it on to turn on one pedal driving. But some other folks really really hate that, and in fact one person told me "who cares about other people driving my car?"
Well, I do!
evilspoons
@TechConnectify My 2004 Volvo S60 had a button at the bottom of the centre column that was just "valet mode". The next time the car was started it would keep the trunk locked as well as do a few other things, like forget any seat adjustments. Your car could easily have a 'someone else is driving' button where it resets to defaults, and not make you have to engage the same feature over and over again for the 99% of the time it's driven by you.
Baloo Uriza
@TechConnectify Likewise, IF an electric car defaults to rolling slowly without pedal input, thus emulating the most infuriating and dangerous thing about traditional viscous coupled automatic transmissions connected to an ICE, then this should LITERALLY NEVER BE ON BY DEFAULT. The only things that should make a car move without pedal input with the brakes off are gravity and someone/something pushing/pulling it.
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@BalooUriza I'm going to submit that you have an unpopular take, at least here in the US.
I've never understood someone complaining about creep, as I find it gives me *more* control in low speed situations. Especially reversing.
Baloo Uriza
@TechConnectify Combine this with the idiot move of never using a parking brake and regulations to do so rarely being enforced, performing an Anton Yeltsin maneuver is a daily occurrence in America.
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@breizh One of these days you should try and automatic and see what you think.
Honestly, one of the most baffling experiences in my life is when I drove some British colleagues home at my first job and one of them told me they couldn't drive an automatic because it would confuse them.
The only thing that makes sense to me is when you learn on a manual, you have to think about what gear you should be in. Handing over that control to a machine might just break your brain somehow.
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@breizh meanwhile, here on this continent it's pretty odd to have a manual. So I learned to drive with an automatic.
Right pedal go faster. Left pedal go slower.
Then when I learned how to drive a manual I was really confused! There's a lot more to manage before you even master slipping the clutch.
How anyone can find that to be natural and an automatic to be confusing is utterly beyond me, but apparently they do!
Brains. They're all so different!
Breizh
@TechConnectify For me, it's not even the brain, with a few exceptions.
It’s just habits. Changing habits seems impossible to a lot of people.
People often talk about intuitiveness. It's almost never intuitive. It's just the first thing they've learned.
Breizh
@TechConnectify I've never driven an automatic (Europe obliges, it was still quite rare and not very good until very recently here).
So I can't say what I think of this behavior. I admit that managing the clutch is something that's should be irrelevant to the average driver, but I confess I've never wondered about such details like creeping.
I have "no problem" maneuvering my car, even in tight situations (Europe again: sometimes it's a bit tricky. My own garage give me less than 10-20 cm around the mirrors), but it’s just because it’s what I’ve learned and what I’ve always done.
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@breizh @ConnertheCat @reiterator This is a fair point, but I think that's the entire point of the debate.
Another interesting factor, though, is that as someone who is used to automatics, I find the lack of creep mode to be unsettling at low speeds. I have a lot more control maneuvering the car if I have to put positive pressure on the brake to keep it stopped and I can make it move very very slowly by lifting off. Plus I can stop it instantly since it's the same foot letting it move.
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That, to me, is one of those fundamental differences that I don't know if I could ever cross. Because I hear a lot of people who are used to driving manuals say that they find creep to be unsettling or even dangerous.
Meanwhile, I have always found maneuvering at low speeds with a manual to be extremely fiddly, especially in reverse. Creep feels like a more positive control scheme in that case, as well as "you always need to be on the brake to keep the car stopped"
Breizh
@TechConnectify @reiterator @ConnertheCat But an automatic vs. manual is already a big difference… and in the history there is a lot of cars that would confuse people, things have changed a lot with time.
I don’t think "what if sometime an emergency" is a good point, even more for this kind of thing: will all the cars in the future have to mimic the actual ones indefinitely only because "a new default behavior is confusing"? Even if there is no reason to working this way anymore?
reiterator
@ConnertheCat @TechConnectify true, it’s incredibly selfish for people who own things to be inconsiderate of people who aren't the owner.
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@reiterator @ConnertheCat look, it's okay for you to disagree. But the thing that is more important to me is that, if for some reason I need someone to drive my car to get me out of a jam, I want them to be able to sit down and operate it as if it were any other car.
Perhaps as one pedal driving proliferates this won't be an issue anymore, but I still find it very unsettling when I get in a car, put it in drive, and it doesn't move when I let off the brake.
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@reiterator @ConnertheCat as far as I'm concerned, if there is a way for you to configure your car such that someone in an emergency can't get it to move immediately or otherwise becomes confused by the way it's operating, that is in fact bad.
Complaining in the name of "freedom of ownership" of whatever that you have to squeeze a pedal or push a button one time when you start the car is like the very definition of making a mountain out of a molehill.
Alexander L
@TechConnectify I think you've discovered that a lot of people are really selfish/self centered. Agree with your points here.
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I think in many facets of life we need to remind ourselves to think through things from other perspectives.
What works for you may not work for other people, and that's totally okay! And what seems insane to you might seem completely practical to somebody else.
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