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   Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 00:33:10 JST Evan Prodromou

   So, this podcast episode was very enlightening for me.

   The Ezra Klein Show: What Israelis Fear the World Does Not Understand

   Episode webpage: https://nytimes.com/2023/11/10/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-yossi-klein-halevi.html

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 00:37:15 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     In particular, the guest made a really strange point: Palestinian negotiators insisted on a right of return for refugees and their families to Israel proper -- for people to come back to the places they had been driven from in 1948 and 1967.

     The guest said, this would make Jews a minority in Israel, which would end the original dream of a Jewish nation-state. It would destroy that dream; it would destroy the original idea of Israel.

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 00:39:30 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     He then went on to talk about how, because they wanted to destroy Israel, Palestinians could not be negotiated with.

     It escalated up from a technicality on negotiation terms to extermination, and he continued the rest of the conversation as if the Palestinians would not stop anywhere short of destruction.

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 00:54:54 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     It was a really valuable insight into what people mean by that term.

     I realize there are plenty of anti-Zionist people who really do wish for the disestablishment of Israel.

     But in this instance, it feels like a stretch.

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 01:06:56 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     The other part that struck me was that he really dismissed the idea that "the children and grandchildren of refugees" might have some connection to the land.

     Which rings so true and strikes so hard right now. At a time when plans to expel 2M people over the border into Sinai have been leaked, the power of residency and connection seems really cogent.

     I'm reminded of Atlas, the titan from Greek mythology who needed to touch the Earth to have his power.

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     stephen m 🍞🌹🇵🇸 (marxistvegan@union.place)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 01:58:12 JST stephen m 🍞🌹🇵🇸

     in reply to

     @evan I have been listening to Ezra lately, cause I respect him as a journalist and so far it has been the location in the NYtimes where there is more nuanced discussion, even though leaning he leans more as a soft-zionist, but being open about that. The interview I actually liked was the one the week before specifically towards the end when Ezra asks basically what can be done and Amjad Iraqi gives a very compelling answer and analysis https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/07/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-amjad-iraqi.html?

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 01:58:12 JST Evan Prodromou

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     • stephen m 🍞🌹🇵🇸

     @marxistvegan I didn't like that one. I don't like when interviewers make Palestinians explain Hamas before they're allowed to speak on any other topic.

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 02:02:42 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Serge from Babka

     @serge I believe Jyoti was talking about the thousands of children who have been killed in Gaza during the bombing.

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     Serge from Babka (serge@babka.social)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 02:02:43 JST Serge from Babka

     in reply to

     @evan

     After you cheered on an account that was spreading the blood libel myth, it's really hard to take you seriously when you boost anything related to the I/P conflict.

     ( https://cosocial.ca/@evan/111416169831130598 - and the associated Like on the post)

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     Evan Prodromou (evan@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 03:52:43 JST Evan Prodromou

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     • Serge from Babka

     @serge I've deleted my reply.

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     Serge from Babka (serge@babka.social)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 03:52:44 JST Serge from Babka

     in reply to

     @evan

     That's what dog whistles do... they make people seem crazy when they question them.

     The blood libel myth is well over 1,000 years old. It's one of, if not the oldest antisemitic myth.

     Dehumanizing language regarding a people, calling an entire people "Babykillers" is hate speech, period, end stop. Liking the post and then cheering it on is not in itself hate speech, but indicates that you are either highly ignorant of the meaning, or you agree with the sentiment.

     Now two Jews have gone out of their way to tell you how hateful it is, its historical context and modern usage.

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     Douglas Patriarche (dpatriarche@cosocial.ca)'s status on Sunday, 19-Nov-2023 14:29:59 JST Douglas Patriarche

     in reply to

     @evan thanks for the recommendation. This was a good episode, as was its companion episode, the discussion with Amjad Iraqi.