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1. Embed this notice
   Julian Foad (julian@fed.foad.me.uk)'s status on Thursday, 16-Nov-2023 17:25:42 JST Julian Foad

   Open tech, be afraid. Be very afraid. Microsoft owns both Visual Studio Code “VSCode” and MS-GitHub, two intertwined and utterly proprietary product-service ecosystems with a bit of open-source in their core to lure us in. Because they love open source? Yeah, no.

   Soon after leaving GitPod whose technology links the two, Geoffrey Hunt last year explained their strategy and what it’s doing to our open tech world, in a great and “harrowing” article, “Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture” https://ghuntley.com/fracture/

   “The future of software development tooling that is being built is closed as ****, and people seem to be okay with it…”

   This is why MS-GitHub is not our friend.

   This is why falling for their trick, disguising MS-VSCode as a neat “free” editor, will come back and haunt and hurt us.

   Vendor lock-in double-whammy. Using open source as “a financial weapon”.

   “… the biggest challenge for Gitpod, GitLab, Datacoves, OpenBB, Foam, et al lies ahead - developing open language tooling for each community where Microsoft has forked the communities over to proprietary language servers…”

   If we have a grain of public spirit, if we are motivated at all by the Freedom that’s supposed to be afforded by Free-Libre Open-Source Software, we must #GiveUpGithub, we must recognise the trap, we must choose truly open #FreedomTech.

   • See also my FOSS Apps Live in FOSS Forges .
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 00:10:48 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • tyil
     @tyil >The Linux kernel is not an open core model as far as I'm aware, it is completely free software, licensed under the GPL.
     Unfortunately, Linux isn't free software, it's proprietary, as it contains proprietary software.
     
     If you want a free version of Linux, licensed under the GPLv2, you want GNU Linux-libre.
   • Embed this notice
     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 00:10:51 JST tyil

     in reply to

     @julian@fed.foad.me.uk MissKey won't allow me to reply to his thread since he blocked me for not agreeing with his love for GitLab unconditionally, so I'm just leaving my reply here. His post seems to have untagged you as well.lol you can't find a person more devoted to digital sovereignty than meI sure can, Stallman is even on the #Fediverse!you are suggesting to boycott anything that is remotely related to a proprietary technologyInsofar possible, yes. History has shown time and time again that a for-profit, publicly traded company will always fuck over the users given enough time. This is why free software is important, and why we should take great care in protecting it wherever and however we can.
     
     GitLab is what is commonly known as "fauxpen", it pretends to be for freedom, but in reality there's only a part that's open, and the good stuff remains locked.At this point don't use the Linux kernelThe Linux kernel is not an open core model as far as I'm aware, it is completely free software, licensed under the GPL.Your post doesn't explain the reasonBut it does, #GitLab is an open-core model, and so far this has proven to be user hostile in the long term."people like you" is nasty.Perhaps it is, but I am quite clear on the "people like you" I'm referring to, people who proclaim to be big free software supporters, but then don't actually want to support a free software ecosystem if it means having to give up a tiny bit of convenience.

   • Embed this notice
     Julian Foad (julian@fed.foad.me.uk)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 00:10:53 JST Julian Foad

     in reply to

     • tyil
     • Alex L 🕊 🇵🇸

     @tyil I’m with you in your position on this issue, but just please be gentle in how you respond to someone personally. I don’t know the particular case but it’s quite likely a person might actually care but just not yet grasp the full picture. It’s taken me years to progress from appreciating source code freedom, to appreciating that freedom in a system and service and ecosystem requires much more than merely freedom of the bits of source code inside it. We still don’t have good words, or system-encompassing licences or accreditations, for example, to declare that a business or ecosystem or whatever is preserving freedoms analogous to the well documented four freedoms of source code. That makes it difficult to communicate the depth of the issue. While the situation makes me mad, and I feel it’s appropriate to call attention to it using strong language in a general public message, nevertheless when we talk to an individual we might do well to remember that most individuals are well intentioned and may react better to a kind patient explanation of an issue.

     @alxlg

   • Embed this notice
     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 00:10:54 JST tyil

     in reply to

     • Alex L 🕊 🇵🇸

     @alxlg@mastodon.social @julian@fed.foad.me.uk My entire post is about people like you, please reread it!

   • Embed this notice
     Alex L 🕊 🇵🇸 (alxlg@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 00:10:55 JST Alex L 🕊 🇵🇸

     in reply to

     • tyil

     @tyil @julian

     Proprietary system with an open core? GitLab CE is the "open core" for you? It's basically the same as EE and yes the CE is free as in freedom, otherwise communities like KDE wouldn't use it, they have a very strict policy. And when KDE considered to migrate to GitLab, they asked GitLab devs for features they need to be available in CE and they agreed. This spirit of cooperation is gold.

   • Embed this notice
     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 00:10:58 JST tyil

     in reply to

     • Alex L 🕊 🇵🇸

     @alxlg@mastodon.social @julian@fed.foad.me.uk "Now"? It's a proprietary system with an open core, it's not free as in freedom. Especially the SaaS hosted version is not something you should depend on if you care for software freedom.
     
     I believe GitLab the company is on the stock market these days too, which means they have a very serious dedication to chase money rather than quality. They'll do more and more undesirable actions with the project and it will lower the quality over time, but even today you should definitely not support their proprietary platform if you care for software freedom.
     
     Just because its used by many projects doesn't mean it is good. Many free software projects use or have used #GitHub, and these days many also opt to use #Slack or #Discord. None of these platforms should ever be considered, yet here we are. Arguing something must be great because a project you respect uses it seems very shortsighted, and is exactly the kind of behaviour I point out in my previous post. People who loudly proclaim the believe in free software, but when it comes down to it, they don't actually care a single bit the moment it implies they have to do some effort to stand up for their supposed ideals.

   • Embed this notice
     Alex L 🕊 🇵🇸 (alxlg@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 00:10:59 JST Alex L 🕊 🇵🇸

     in reply to

     • tyil

     @tyil @julian

     What's the problem with GitLab now? It's even used by Freedesktop, KDE and GNOME...

   • Embed this notice
     tyil (tyil@fedi.tyil.nl)'s status on Saturday, 18-Nov-2023 00:11:00 JST tyil

     in reply to

     @julian@fed.foad.me.uk Sadly the average "open source" supporter or even developer doesn't seem to care that much about the openness or freedom bits. They don't want to think about it because its inconvenient.
     
     True free software proponents have been telling people to avoid proprietary platforms such as #Github and #Gitlab for ages, and it seems to fall on deaf ears. I have no clue what could be done to convince people who aren't already convinced, no arguments seem to stick with those who simply care not for software freedom.
     
     We see it here on the #Fediverse even, where we were supposed to have lots of connected servers, but instead we're seeing a handful of mega instances with thousands of users. Even with the negative effects of fediblock clearly visible to everyone who cares even the tiniest bit, it doesn't change. Fosstodon is my prime example, a huge server that is supposedly for exactly the kind of people that should care, but they clearly do not. The majority of my interactions with people from there have been people who promote proprietary services and platforms, and it's been a very depressing experience.
     
     I see supposed free software supporting developers at my work, at meetups, and online who are all celebrating their use of vscode and github. I cannot understand how they can be this positive about something that is clearly not a positive impact to the free software ecosystem.