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1. Embed this notice
   Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 01:28:47 JST Adam F. Lawton

   I keep seeing people try to get me to take into account the fear that Jewish people feel related to the threat of annihilation from Hamas ( however unlikely that actually is). So that fear justifies the IDF actually trying to annihilate Gaza? Explain please.

   • Embed this notice
     Paul Cantrell (inthehands@hachyderm.io)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 01:28:47 JST Paul Cantrell

     in reply to

     @Adam_Cadmon1
     There’s a real thought lurking beneath that foolish one:

     Likud and Hamas both want genocide. But there isn’t enough broad public support for genocide in either Israel or Palestine for them to get away with it — not by default. They need a sufficient portion of the population to be so afraid and so hopeless that they are willing to accept atrocities. So yeah, the fear people feel really is the thing to watch here. And it’s a tool of monsters.

   • Embed this notice
     Prof Kemi FG (kfuentesgeorge@universeodon.com)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 03:55:55 JST Prof Kemi FG

     in reply to

     • George Station

     @harmonygritz @Adam_Cadmon1

     I personally knew a few (albeit not many) Jewish people, including 2 directly from Israel, and none of them are defending Netanyahu. This idea that condemning Netanyahu = condemning Israeli people OR Jewish people is in no way a universal feeling among Israelis and non-Israeli Jewish people. There are a ton of Israeli pro-peace movements. The only people pushing the "Netanyahu = Israel = all Jewish people" are either ultra-rightist Zionists or anti-Semitic maniacs.

     It does get more complicated by the fact that open and die-hard antisemites have been using the Palestinian cause to justify hating Jewish people.

     In any case, it's clear that using Hamas as justification for ethnically cleansing Gaza will not bring peace either to Israel or the Palestinians, but it's a great way for Netanyahu and his maniac cabinet to centralize power.

   • Embed this notice
     George Station (harmonygritz@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 03:55:57 JST George Station

     in reply to

     @Adam_Cadmon1 What I'm seeing & hearing (US) is that it translates to fear at local level. Local pro-Palestinian marches, posters & flyers, etc. put them in immediate fear of their personal safety. They have never had this vocal & visible challenge from large numbers. They may also feel betrayed by media and friends saying Israel/Netanyahu are wrong on flattening Gaza.

     I don't argue that they aren't feeling the emotions. I believe them. I doubt that folks I know will publicly condemn Netanyahu.

     Paul Cantrell repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Adam F. Lawton (adam_cadmon1@mastodon.online)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 03:56:26 JST Adam F. Lawton

     in reply to

     • Prof Kemi FG
     • George Station
     • PickledNerd

     @picklednerd @KFuentesGeorge @harmonygritz Israel is America after 9/11 right now. It's wartime and somebody is going to pay. Is that unreasonable? Quite, but it doesn't change the reality.

   • Embed this notice
     PickledNerd (picklednerd@masto.ai)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 03:56:30 JST PickledNerd

     in reply to

     • Prof Kemi FG
     • George Station

     @KFuentesGeorge @harmonygritz @Adam_Cadmon1 Now they stopped publishing stuff on socials so I am considering engaging with a few of them. But if feels like there is no real possible conversation happening.

     Paul Cantrell repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     PickledNerd (picklednerd@masto.ai)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Nov-2023 03:56:31 JST PickledNerd

     in reply to

     • Prof Kemi FG
     • George Station

     @KFuentesGeorge @harmonygritz @Adam_Cadmon1 I know a few Jewish people, mostly from US, a bunch from South America, and that is not my experience. Most, if not all of them, are progressive/left leaning but they are extremely defensive on Hamas/Gaza to the point I did not even engage in 1-1 conversations (yet) just because of what they posted on social media, especially at the beginning of the invasion.