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Cybarbie (nf3xn@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:11 JST Cybarbie
- Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
@ryanc wait what - they wear out?

In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:11 JST from mastodon.social permalink
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  Zeugs (zeugs@social.cologne)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:24:53 JST Zeugs
  in reply to
  @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn @cstross
  After 25 years. "Why was it called USB forever? " "Because it takes like forever to transfer data."
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:24:53 JST permalink
  
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  Zeugs (zeugs@social.cologne)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:24:54 JST Zeugs
  in reply to
  @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn @cstross We need the USB forever* standard.
  *Support 50 years
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:24:54 JST permalink
  
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  -dsr- (dashdsrdash@tilde.zone)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:02 JST -dsr-
  in reply to
  @Zeugs @ryanc @nf3xn
  I don't believe I have any devices which use USB A or C and will last 25 years.
  I have several NEMA 5-15P devices that are more than 50 years old and still in reasonable condition...
  but in any case, the question is what you should put into your walls. I wouldn't put USB in the wall; as @cstross said, we'll have a new standard every few years.
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:02 JST permalink
  
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  Zeugs (zeugs@social.cologne)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:04 JST Zeugs
  in reply to
  - Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  - -dsr-
  @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn
  I could imagine that the plugging frequency could differ for USB.
  20.000 is a bit more than two 2 plugging cycles per day for 25 years.
  If you use it that much you should think about a good durable power converter in the wall. 🙃
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:04 JST permalink
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  -dsr- (dashdsrdash@tilde.zone)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:05 JST -dsr-
  in reply to
  - Zeugs
  - Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  @Zeugs @ryanc @nf3xn
  I checked the DE standard, and I'm a little surprised to see manufacturers boasting about 20,000 insertion cycle testing for type F / Schuko plugs. I would have guessed 500000 or more.
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:05 JST permalink
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  -dsr- (dashdsrdash@tilde.zone)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:06 JST -dsr-
  in reply to
  - Zeugs
  - Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  @Zeugs @ryanc @nf3xn
  NEMA is the US standard, 5-15P is the 3 conductor 15A plug side that 90% of the appliances you can buy use, 5-15R is the wall outlet side that 90% of the walls will have. The exceptions are mostly 220/240V outlets and plugs for large air conditioners, electric dryers and such.
  Very old houses will have ungrounded 2 conductor plugs; some appliances use ungrounded 2 conductor plugs that work in NEMA 5-15R.
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:06 JST permalink
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  Zeugs (zeugs@social.cologne)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:07 JST Zeugs
  in reply to
  - Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  - -dsr-
  @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn is that more or less than a standard AC wall socket?
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:07 JST permalink
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  -dsr- (dashdsrdash@tilde.zone)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:09 JST -dsr-
  in reply to
  - Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  @ryanc @nf3xn
  Good USB-C endurance is 10,000 cycles.
  Cheap endurance testers for NEMA 5-15P have a counter that goes to 999999. Expensive ones go another digit.
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:09 JST permalink
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  Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag: (ryanc@infosec.exchange)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:10 JST Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  in reply to
  
  @nf3xn Standard endurance for USB-A ports is 1,500 connect/disconnect ("mating") cycles.
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:10 JST permalink
  
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  Orb 2069 (orb2069@mastodon.online)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:58 JST Orb 2069
  in reply to
  @cstross @Zeugs @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn
  I used to joke that CCS and NACS were just a stopgap solution for car charging until #usbc caught up.
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:25:58 JST permalink
  
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  Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:26:00 JST Charlie Stross
  in reply to
  USB 1.1 came out 25 years ago. Extrapolating linearly for the next 50 years, we can expect USB 12 to carry roughly 50 Tbit/sec of data and provide up to 10kW of power on demand.
  @Zeugs @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:26:00 JST permalink
  
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  John H (considermycatjohn@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:26:02 JST John H
  in reply to
  @cstross @Zeugs @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn Finally, the USB toaster could become a reality
  
  In conversation Monday, 06-Nov-2023 23:26:02 JST permalink
  
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  Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 01:17:02 JST Charlie Stross
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  @Zeugs @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn This is a classic example of why linear extrapolation usually fails!
  (10kW is more than enough power to run every appliance in a house except the heating/air conditioning. And 100 Tbit/sec is probably excessive by a similar margin. Look back 50 years before USB and we didn’t even have/need data cabling in the modern sense … it was 1943 and 50 baud Telex over PSTN was the new hotness!)
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 01:17:02 JST permalink
  
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  Zeugs (zeugs@social.cologne)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 01:17:04 JST Zeugs
  in reply to
  @cstross @dashdsrdash @ryanc @nf3xn If this forecast is right we would have to rewire everything. 3.6kw max for most households. Also the cable must be very much thicker if they stay with 5 volts. Results in 2.000 ampere.
  Will we need the bandwidth... We will see. But with Moore's law ending this could be a bit too much to compute.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 01:17:04 JST permalink
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  Cybarbie (nf3xn@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 01:17:07 JST Cybarbie
  in reply to
  - Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  @ryanc dafuq? so need to replace usb power socket what every uh four or five years or something? ehnn.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 01:17:07 JST permalink
  
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  Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag: (ryanc@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 02:08:04 JST Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  in reply to
  - Charlie Stross
  - publius
  - Zeugs
  - -dsr-
  @publius @cstross @dashdsrdash @Zeugs @nf3xn I do have a few of those with the "universal" sockets that will accept plugs from the UK, EU, and US (most stuff sold in the US is 240V tolerant), plus USB, and those are nice.
  Wouldn't plug anything more expensive than about £30 into the USB charging ports though.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 02:08:04 JST permalink
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  publius (publius@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 02:08:07 JST publius
  in reply to
  @cstross @dashdsrdash @Zeugs @ryanc @nf3xn
  I am aware that such "minimally invasive" options might well not be available everywhere. On the other hand, my experience is that it's not difficult in Europe to buy "power strips" or whatever you want to call them, boxes of receptacles on the end of an extension cord, which also include a USB power supply. That also seems to me like a reasonable compromise.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 02:08:07 JST permalink
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  Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 02:08:09 JST Charlie Stross
  in reply to
  @publius @dashdsrdash @Zeugs @ryanc @nf3xn Different mains standard here (I'm not American).
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 02:08:09 JST permalink
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  publius (publius@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 02:08:10 JST publius
  in reply to
  @dashdsrdash @Zeugs @ryanc @nf3xn @cstross
  I bought an outlet plate (for a standard US 2× NEMA 5-15R outlet) which includes a little parasitic rectifier and voltage dropper feeding a USB-A socket.
  When it stops working, or being relevant, I can just pop it off and pop a regular wall plate on. Nothing is wired in. (It has contacts which slip over the screws on the side of the outlet.)
  Mind you, it was $1 at a thrift store. I doubt I would have paid full price.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 02:08:10 JST permalink
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  Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag: (ryanc@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 09:50:39 JST Ryan Castellucci :nonbinary_flag:
  in reply to
  - Charlie Stross
  - publius
  - Zeugs
  - -dsr-
  @publius @cstross @dashdsrdash @Zeugs @nf3xn I have enough wall warts from the US that having power strips with universal sockets seems like the least bad solution. They at least have their own fuses.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 09:50:39 JST permalink
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  publius (publius@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 09:50:41 JST publius
  in reply to
  @ryanc @cstross @dashdsrdash @Zeugs @nf3xn
  Oh, what Big Clive calls the "Dethdaptor"!
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 07-Nov-2023 09:50:41 JST permalink

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