katzenberger
(1/2) #Israel's Defense Minister #Gallant: "We are fighting human #animals and we act accordingly."
President #Herzog: "It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It's not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It's absolutely not true."
Minister of Heritage #Eliyahu:
"North Gaza is more beautiful than ever. Blowing up and flattening everything is amazing. Once we are finished, we will hand over the lands of #Gaza to the fighting soldiers and settlers"
katzenberger
(2/2) These are not random fanatics showing their rage on the streets.
These are government officials of #Israel, barely disguising their announcements of #WarCrimes, and #CrimesAgainstHumanity.
Stop finding excuses. Stop defending this.
Aral Balkan
@ArneBab @priryo @alper @katzenberger So your defense of Israel is that it is acting nominally better than the worst possible example of a barbaric cabal of deranged, brain-addled religious fundamentalist genocidal maniacs would given the same military capability?
Just doesn’t feel like much of a defense to me.
Arne Babenhauserheide
@priryo what do you think how many Israelis would be dead after 4 weeks if Hamas had the weapons Israel has?
That is the question you must ask if you claim that there is symmetry.
How many civilians would die if all Hamas fighters would lay down their weapons today and surrender to IDF?
How many civilians would die if all IDF fighters would lay down their weapons today and surrender to Hamas?
@alper @katzenberger
priryo
@ArneBab
I do not fucking believe you're minimising the genocidal rhetoric AND ACTIONS of the Israeli govt at this time, with "well if they wanted to kill *all* of them, they would have."
Take a look at yourself.
@alper @katzenberger
Arne Babenhauserheide
@alper If this seems strange, then think about what would have happened in the past four weeks if Israel had the intention to kill all civilians in Gaza.
They could have killed almost all civilians in Gaza. 4 weeks are enough time that almost no one would have survived.
But they did not.
Do you still see a symmetry?
@katzenberger
Arne Babenhauserheide
@alper And I notice a symmetry broken since Oct 7th:
Israel had the means, but not the will to kill all civilians in Gaza.
Hamas had the will, but not the means to kill all civilians in Israel.
This was broken: Hamas showed that they are acquiring the means.
And there is no symmetry in action:
Hamas intentionally targets civilians.
Israel targets Hamas.
Hamas creates situations where targeting Hamas also hits civilians, but that does not mean that Israel targets civilians.
Arne Babenhauserheide
@alper I notice symmetries and asymmetries.
I notice the symmetry of words between the far-right minority in the israeli government and Hamas.
I notice that the original toot tries to construct a false symmetry of words between the general Israeli government and Hamas by using disinformation tactics.
I notice the asymmetry in action: Hamas offense targets civilians and Hamas defense uses civilians as shield while Israeli attacks target Hamas and defense protects civilians. 1/2
Display Name
@ArneBab @katzenberger I agree. I think the problem you're not noticing is the symmetry. My response was about that. Maybe not clear enough but being blocked vs getting murdered for something someone else did is another symmetry.
Arne Babenhauserheide
@alper and I got blocked, because I pointed out that sandwiching a decontextualized quote of the president between two far-right quotes is a disinformation tactic aimed at holding Israelis in general responsible for the words of the far-right minority.
If you want people to listen,
*do not* resort to such disinformation tactics.
I’ll repeat what I said there: being far right is disgusting. Saying this is not an excuse for being far right.
Arne Babenhauserheide
@alper you did not answer my question. @katzenberger
Display Name
@ArneBab @katzenberger they sure are not elected by Palestinians. So yes, some do protest and yet many give the power to and support the government.
Arne Babenhauserheide
@alper why should I say that?
That would make even less sense than the toots I commented on.
@katzenberger
Display Name
@ArneBab @katzenberger next step you'll say it was Palestinians that elected that government that Israelis are protesting against.
Arne Babenhauserheide
@katzenberger Who is excusing the far-right parties Likud and Otzma Yehudit?
Their two parties are far-right, and being far-right is disgusting.
Yes, these are part of the government.
The government that tens of thousands of Israelis had been protesting against continuously for months before Hamas committed their mass-murder on Oct 7th.
Aral Balkan
@ArneBab @alper @katzenberger Yeah, there’s no symmetry. One is a terrorist group. The other is a state acting like a terrorist group.
Also gree on the last bit. Wish someone would let the IDF and Israeli government know too.
Arne Babenhauserheide
@aral I am saying that the claim that was raised of there being symmetry between Hamas and the Israeli government is wrong.
The facts have to be correct, otherwise any moral reasoning is flawed from the start.
This claimed symmetry is a false claim of facts.
And spreading disinformation is never right, regardless of how much you think that you’re on the right side.
@priryo@linernotes.club @alper @katzenberger
Aral Balkan
@ArneBab Ah, do they have to reach 10,000 dead civilians before it becomes state terrorism? Or is it 10,000 dead children? Silly me, I always forget which it is.
Arne Babenhauserheide
@aral That’s false — and I thought that should be obvious: If the Israeli government with all its arms were to act like a terrorist group, almost no one in Gaza would be alive today.
They don’t.
The Israeli government around Netanyahu did a lot of bad things in the past years, but they do not act like a terrorist group. And the state of Israel does not either.
And don’t worry: you can be sure that every publicly known Jew has been told your line many times.
@alper @katzenberger
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