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   Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 21:30:24 JST Sexy Moon
   2000 election might have been stolen via supreme court depending on how you interpret it, I honestly can't remember the minute details anymore. All I remember was the argument that the state was changing its election laws during the election which is probably usually bad but probably more sensitive to the actual thing being changed not just a change happening
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     SuperDicq (superdicq@minidisc.tokyo)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 21:31:52 JST SuperDicq

     in reply to

     @Moon@shitposter.club I wonder what an alternative 9/11 with Al Gore as president would've looked like.

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 21:35:20 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     @SuperDicq I think 9/11 would have played out almost the same, the big question is would we have invaded Iraq. the conventional answer is "no" but I'm not so sure.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 21:49:34 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • ランファン
     @leyonhjelm @SuperDicq before 9/11 there was a neocon think tank plan for the USA to invade several countries and those plans did not hinge on a particular party becoming president.
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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 21:49:35 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq

     @Moon

     We would have invaded something equally stupid, may or may not have been iraq

     @SuperDicq

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     Aven (aven@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:06:38 JST Aven

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • ランファン
     @leyonhjelm @SuperDicq @Moon
     >before 9/11 there was a neocon think tank plan for the USA to invade several countries and those plans did not hinge on a particular party becoming president.
     
     Yup, this is true. General Wesley Clark described it publicly:
     
     >In Clark's book Winning Modern Wars, published in 2003, he describes his conversation with a military officer in the Pentagon shortly after 9/11 regarding a plan to attack seven countries in five years: "As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and finishing off Iran." Clark regards the 2003 invasion of Iraq as "a huge mistake".
     
     I wish more people knew this.
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:06:39 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq

     @Moon

     Correct, just saying it may not have gone in a particular order. With Bush Sr’s son, and with an administration full of his dad’s buddies, that certainly tipped the scale toward it being Iraq

     @SuperDicq

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:07:30 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Aven
     • ランファン
     @aven @leyonhjelm @SuperDicq around 2008 Russia became a bigger stinker to them than Iran.
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     mothball蛾玉 (?summer boy?) (moth_ball@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:09:01 JST mothball蛾玉 (?summer boy?)

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • ランファン
     @Moon @leyonhjelm @SuperDicq If historians are to be believed, JFK was the sole person preventing the US from nuking the evil commies to bits before they could get their own nukes. Supposedly all the war hawks were in support of this plan.
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:16:29 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Aven
     • ランファン
     @aven @SuperDicq @leyonhjelm Russia was laughing at the USA because of the incompetent and on-sided reset deal. They knew about all our NGOs inside their country so they knew it was a sham.
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     Aven (aven@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:16:30 JST Aven

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • ランファン
     @Moon @SuperDicq @leyonhjelm I don't know the details of that, but the first thing I think of is the "Russian Reset" with Hillary Clinton.
     
     I just did a quick search and found this funny tidbit I didn't know:
     
     >On 6 March 2009 in Geneva, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton presented Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov with a red button with the English word "reset" and the Roman alphabet transliteration of the Russian Cyrillic alphabet word перегрузка ("peregruzka"). It was intended that this would be the Russian word for "reset" but actually was the word for "overload". (The correct translation would be перезагрузка ["perezagruzka"].) Additionally, the button switch was the type commonly used as an emergency stop on industrial equipment.
     
     The button was labelled "overload", not "reset", in Russian. I don't even.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:18:09 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Aven
     • ランファン
     @aven @SuperDicq @leyonhjelm I remember the exact event at the time and laughed about it with friends because yeah it was a big button that is only ever used for emergency shutoffs.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:22:26 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Aven
     • ランファン
     @leyonhjelm @SuperDicq @aven Even before this I saw the anti-Russia rhetoric ramp up, I am convinced that she was just obeying her masters. There are plenty of reasons to hate Russia but to these people it solely is about Russia's ability to resist American hegemony, human rights abuses and totalitarianism are okay if you're our ally.
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     Aven (aven@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:22:27 JST Aven

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Aven
     • ランファン
     @Moon @SuperDicq @leyonhjelm but the reason why I think of that is because I have the impression that Clinton developed a very personal animosity toward Russia, perhaps during that time.
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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:22:27 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Aven

     @aven

     Most career politicians need a bogeyman to keep people focuses on. Russia had several generations of existing propaganda and conditioning against them, which is convenient

     @SuperDicq @Moon

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     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:34:43 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Aven

     @Moon

     Yep. I’ve been watching this unfold since the Berlin Wall fell. The Soviets fell, the Russians were briefly ok because they were in financial ruin, and the glow in the dark boys played games in places like Bosnia and Serbia, getting a shit ton of people killed. If not for the Clinton administration fumbling around with NATO there, most Americans wouldn’t have noticed at all. Once Russia started to stabilise, the only delay for renewed government hate was the population inconveniently hated Islam after 9/11 when Russia was a better bogeyman for the arms industry.

     @SuperDicq @aven

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     Aven (aven@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:39:18 JST Aven

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • ランファン
     @Moon @leyonhjelm @SuperDicq
     >Even before this I saw the anti-Russia rhetoric ramp up, I am convinced that she was just obeying her masters.
     
     I don't remember that, but I don't disbelieve you.
     
     >There are plenty of reasons to hate Russia but to these people it solely is about Russia's ability to resist American hegemony, human rights abuses and totalitarianism are okay if you're our ally.
     
     That kind of makes it sound like Russia wouldn't be as bad or worse if it held the hegemonic position instead. I personally think it's more along the lines of the bogeyman thing: creating an external enemy/threat to unify against. It's less about fighting that enemy, and more about forcing your detractors at home to fall in line. Heck, if the threat is bad enough, you can suspend elections and ban opposition parties and become dictator for life.
     
     It's a classic dictator's strategy, and is why countries like Iran and North Korea have so much anti-American propaganda. It's less about America and more about consolidating and maintaining power in their own country.
     
     Disclaimer: I'm not saying Iran and North Korea don't have some valid reasons to fear/hate America, nor that some of the animosity isn't real and can't lead to war/invasion. Also I agree that America is hypocritical about human rights abuses, though to be fair, every powerful country is.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 28-Oct-2023 22:39:18 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • SuperDicq
     • Aven
     • ランファン
     @aven @SuperDicq @leyonhjelm sure, my position is based around the american government being my government.